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What WoW needs to do is start hooking in-game rewards to real-life rewards. For example, a deal with 24 Hour Fitness where you need to attend for 30 days in a

What WoW needs to do is start hooking in-game rewards to real-life rewards. For example, a deal with 24 Hour Fitness where you need to attend for 30 days in a row to unlock some kind of sword. The biometric system at 24 Hour is now sophisticated enough to permit this kind of tracking [with your permission of course]. I'm completely serious. This is an inversion of the Zynga model in which real life money is exchanged for worthless virtual goods. It's more like worthless virtual goods are dangled as an incentive for real life improvement. There's a lot further you can go with this concept (hooking it up to location based apps, for example), but if we're talking about a "game layer on the world", start with converting an unhealthy dependency into a healthy one.

BrandonM 16y ago
I love the idea, but why does WoW need to do this? Any game could do it. A fitness club is especially well-placed to accomplish it. Hmm... I think it could also work well as a Facebook app. I'm going to mull this over and see what I can come up with. This could really drive society to improve itself in all kinds of ways.
- javanix 16y ago
  I think people's participation would be much higher in such a program if the rewards were linked to an existing platform. People have been trying to game-ify real life for years and its never gained much traction. I think this is because people have to sign up for something additional, and at that point (unless the program gains a lot of steam with a lot of people) there's not much tying individuals in.
  - BrandonM 16y ago
    Right, but that platform could just be "social bragging" through Facebook, other websites, and other methods entirely. It's as simple as showing off to your friends the cool things you're learning while encouraging them to do the same. Meanwhile, those same friends are able to observe the changes to you on a personal basis. It's inherently social and viral; I don't think it really needs to leverage an existing platform at all.
- ramanujan 16y ago
  Sure, but WoW does already have a huge installed base. That said, you could be the middleman and not ask permission from anyone. Just build a 24 Hour Fitness/WoW mashup. The 24 Hour Fitness end would be easy if you have a membership (basically just set up a screen scraper for your biometric login history). For WoW, you might start off by buying a bunch of top swords and stuff from other players to seed it. I vaguely know that Blizzard doesn't like that sort of thing, so maybe you could instead seed it with donations of equipment from people who are going to delete their accounts because of lack of exercise. At the beginning it'd be semi-manual, with difficult-to-obtain gear traded in person in the game. But I think that would get a lot of buzz on Twitter (and even the NYT) if promoted properly, and would get you a meeting with the Blizzard guys to make it a reality. Anyway, if anyone is interested in doing something with this, I actually have a whole spec written up (one of 50 startup ideas that I can't actually attend to, what with the primary and all). Drop me a line at sramanujan1729 at gmail dot com if you want to chat.
- rick888 16y ago
  "I'm going to mull this over and see what I can come up with." This idea is kind of like having a math game: the majority of the population will not bother with it. The reason WOW is so popular is because it allows you to get away from your real life.
- klochner 16y ago
  This might get you started: http://fora.tv/2010/07/27/Jesse_Schell_Visions_of_the_Gamepocalypse http://fora.tv/2010/07/27/Jesse_Schell_Visions_of_the_Gamepo...
stcredzero 16y ago
Reminds me of this: http://xkcd.com/189/ http://xkcd.com/189/
leinerj 16y ago
(long time lurker here.. this topic is too close to home to just lurk) I'm working on a startup that is taking this concept and applying it to social gaming. We're calling ourselves "Zynga for Heath." We're normalizing activity data from public API's from exercise devices like Fitbit, Nike+, Map My Fitness, biometric devices, etc and assigning it an activity score. Basically, rewarding players for working out, parking farther away from the store, and even just walking around the shopping center. A huge goal for us is partnerships with companies like 24 hour fitness to reward their members in-game. This score is then used in our game that will be running on Facebook/iOS to reward the player with points that they use to continue building up their fitness/sports world. Our normalization platform will give us the ability to create multiple types of games to appeal to more than just the existing social games that are out on Facebook. We're very early into our development process, but would love to keep the Hacker News community posted, if interested. Our info site is http://www.neufit.com/ http://www.neufit.com/
- davidwparker 16y ago
  Reminds me of this Ted TV Talk by Tom Chatfield: http://www.ted.com/talks/tom_chatfield_7_ways_games_reward_the_brain.html http://www.ted.com/talks/tom_chatfield_7_ways_games_reward_t... There was another Ted TV talk that it reminded me of too, but I couldn't remember what it was.
  - tdorrance 16y ago
    Here's another Ted Talk you may be thinking of... http://www.ted.com/talks/jane_mcgonigal_gaming_can_make_a_better_world.html http://www.ted.com/talks/jane_mcgonigal_gaming_can_make_a_be...
- dkarl 16y ago
  Okay, that kicks ass. You got my email address; I can't wait to use the product. 1. You got on my good side when I saw young Arnie. That's awesome. I hope if you need permission you get it, because it would be a shame to lose him. I got an instant flashback to "Pumping Iron" and how charismatic and inspiring he is in that movie (despite being a dick.) 2. I got briefly annoyed at the initial screenshot. It's obviously a screenshot, but it contains instructions to close the locker door, and I just could not stop myself from spending thirty seconds trying to close the locker door even though I knew it wouldn't work. It's hard to explain, but I just had to try to close the locker door before I could move on. I bet some people will be legitimately confused, too. Screenshots are okay as long as they don't contain instructions telling you to interact with them! 3. Clicking through, looks cool, looks cool, being sold, and then BAM I'm completely sold on the screenshot that shows I can earn stuff for my friends and vice-versa. For many people it's a lot harder to let other people down than it is to let themselves down. I immediately thought of a certain friend who's a rather extreme case, but it applies to me, too. My first breakthrough in fitness, when I went from a wannabe exerciser to a guy who actually does work out a few times a week, was when I had a roommate who recruited me as her running partner. Social pressure, not wanting to send my friend out running alone when she was asking for my support, pulled me through a lot of tough times when I really, really didn't want to work out, and then when I moved out a year later I found I was, for the first time in my life, capable of pushing through those tough times by myself. I bet your product will accomplish the same thing for a lot of people -- you MUST do this!

BrandonM 16y ago

I love the idea, but why does WoW need to do this? Any game could do it. A fitness club is especially well-placed to accomplish it. Hmm... I think it could also work well as a Facebook app. I'm going to mull this over and see what I can come up with. This could really drive society to improve itself in all kinds of ways.

javanix 16y ago
I think people's participation would be much higher in such a program if the rewards were linked to an existing platform. People have been trying to game-ify real life for years and its never gained much traction. I think this is because people have to sign up for something additional, and at that point (unless the program gains a lot of steam with a lot of people) there's not much tying individuals in.
- BrandonM 16y ago
  Right, but that platform could just be "social bragging" through Facebook, other websites, and other methods entirely. It's as simple as showing off to your friends the cool things you're learning while encouraging them to do the same. Meanwhile, those same friends are able to observe the changes to you on a personal basis. It's inherently social and viral; I don't think it really needs to leverage an existing platform at all.
ramanujan 16y ago
Sure, but WoW does already have a huge installed base. That said, you could be the middleman and not ask permission from anyone. Just build a 24 Hour Fitness/WoW mashup. The 24 Hour Fitness end would be easy if you have a membership (basically just set up a screen scraper for your biometric login history). For WoW, you might start off by buying a bunch of top swords and stuff from other players to seed it. I vaguely know that Blizzard doesn't like that sort of thing, so maybe you could instead seed it with donations of equipment from people who are going to delete their accounts because of lack of exercise. At the beginning it'd be semi-manual, with difficult-to-obtain gear traded in person in the game. But I think that would get a lot of buzz on Twitter (and even the NYT) if promoted properly, and would get you a meeting with the Blizzard guys to make it a reality. Anyway, if anyone is interested in doing something with this, I actually have a whole spec written up (one of 50 startup ideas that I can't actually attend to, what with the primary and all). Drop me a line at sramanujan1729 at gmail dot com if you want to chat.
rick888 16y ago
"I'm going to mull this over and see what I can come up with." This idea is kind of like having a math game: the majority of the population will not bother with it. The reason WOW is so popular is because it allows you to get away from your real life.
klochner 16y ago
This might get you started: http://fora.tv/2010/07/27/Jesse_Schell_Visions_of_the_Gamepocalypse http://fora.tv/2010/07/27/Jesse_Schell_Visions_of_the_Gamepo...

stcredzero 16y ago

Reminds me of this: http://xkcd.com/189/ http://xkcd.com/189/

leinerj 16y ago

(long time lurker here.. this topic is too close to home to just lurk) I'm working on a startup that is taking this concept and applying it to social gaming. We're calling ourselves "Zynga for Heath." We're normalizing activity data from public API's from exercise devices like Fitbit, Nike+, Map My Fitness, biometric devices, etc and assigning it an activity score. Basically, rewarding players for working out, parking farther away from the store, and even just walking around the shopping center. A huge goal for us is partnerships with companies like 24 hour fitness to reward their members in-game. This score is then used in our game that will be running on Facebook/iOS to reward the player with points that they use to continue building up their fitness/sports world. Our normalization platform will give us the ability to create multiple types of games to appeal to more than just the existing social games that are out on Facebook. We're very early into our development process, but would love to keep the Hacker News community posted, if interested. Our info site is http://www.neufit.com/ http://www.neufit.com/

davidwparker 16y ago
Reminds me of this Ted TV Talk by Tom Chatfield: http://www.ted.com/talks/tom_chatfield_7_ways_games_reward_the_brain.html http://www.ted.com/talks/tom_chatfield_7_ways_games_reward_t... There was another Ted TV talk that it reminded me of too, but I couldn't remember what it was.
- tdorrance 16y ago
  Here's another Ted Talk you may be thinking of... http://www.ted.com/talks/jane_mcgonigal_gaming_can_make_a_better_world.html http://www.ted.com/talks/jane_mcgonigal_gaming_can_make_a_be...
dkarl 16y ago
Okay, that kicks ass. You got my email address; I can't wait to use the product. 1. You got on my good side when I saw young Arnie. That's awesome. I hope if you need permission you get it, because it would be a shame to lose him. I got an instant flashback to "Pumping Iron" and how charismatic and inspiring he is in that movie (despite being a dick.) 2. I got briefly annoyed at the initial screenshot. It's obviously a screenshot, but it contains instructions to close the locker door, and I just could not stop myself from spending thirty seconds trying to close the locker door even though I knew it wouldn't work. It's hard to explain, but I just had to try to close the locker door before I could move on. I bet some people will be legitimately confused, too. Screenshots are okay as long as they don't contain instructions telling you to interact with them! 3. Clicking through, looks cool, looks cool, being sold, and then BAM I'm completely sold on the screenshot that shows I can earn stuff for my friends and vice-versa. For many people it's a lot harder to let other people down than it is to let themselves down. I immediately thought of a certain friend who's a rather extreme case, but it applies to me, too. My first breakthrough in fitness, when I went from a wannabe exerciser to a guy who actually does work out a few times a week, was when I had a roommate who recruited me as her running partner. Social pressure, not wanting to send my friend out running alone when she was asking for my support, pulled me through a lot of tough times when I really, really didn't want to work out, and then when I moved out a year later I found I was, for the first time in my life, capable of pushing through those tough times by myself. I bet your product will accomplish the same thing for a lot of people -- you MUST do this!