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These countries are run by some of the most violent and oppressive regimes in the world. Let’s not pretend that the US is responsible for the quality of life of

These countries are run by some of the most violent and oppressive regimes in the world. Let’s not pretend that the US is responsible for the quality of life of the people living there. These sanctions are entirely non-violent. The actual word you’re looking for is harmful. They’re designed to be harmful, economically. Responding to regimes like this with economic pressure is most certainly preferable to actual violent conflict. Which would be guaranteed to kill thousands of innocent civilians. Given recent history, if you think electing to use non-violent methods to sanction these governments is disgusting, then I really don’t think there’s anything I could say to you. If the regime in Iran falls. It won’t be because of US sanctions. It will be because that country has been operated by a brutal dictator for decades, and the Iranian people grew tired of being the enemy of their own government.

meitham 7y ago
In all fairness, the Iranian government is more popular in Iran than the US govenment in the US. The US sanctions wasn't enacted to help the Iranian people, but to weaken a country that the US perceives as an adversary.
- xtracto 7y ago
  This is important. This kind of actions have to be taken as what they are: unilateral actions of a country against another. It is just the US defending what it sees as they interests. But for the rest of the world it is just a maneuver. For some people in the USA it is difficult to see it. Given their (expected) skew towards their country. But people outside that country can see it with a more objective perspective. Similar thing is happening with the concentration camps in the south.
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    You’ve just described the foreign policy of every country in the world.
- StaticRedux 7y ago
  Are they? Or are the Iranian people too afraid of the Revolutionary Guard to say different? If you want to go that route, North Korea has the most popular government and leader on Earth. I don't think you can make claims about popularity of a government that can and does make people disappear who say otherwise.
  - meitham 7y ago
    Two very different cultures. there has been several protests in Tehran in the last decade with no execution. NK has their own culture too where it's just wrong to critise their rules (or their parents). we need to stop looking at the world from a globalised western lens.
    - AmericanChopper 7y ago
      This comment seems borderline satire. But I guess you’re right. There’s the western way of approving of your government, where you’re free to make up your mind about whether you do or not, and the way that they do it in North Korea and Iran, where you have to constantly fear the consequences of not approving of your government in the appropriate government prescribed manner.
- cronix 7y ago
  > the Iranian government is more popular in Iran than the US govenment in the US It really would be sad if you controlled the media, religious doctrines as interpreted by the gov't (which you can't criticize), had censors, and couldn't pull that off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Iran
  - deleted 7y ago
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markvdb 7y ago
"These sanctions are entirely non-violent." Their effect on the rich in these countries mostly is. What about children dying because of a lack of medication? One could avoid a lot of collateral damage by targeting sanctions at specific powerful individuals. Think of the way some Russian oligarchs from Putin's inner circle got restricted by western sanctions.
ionised 7y ago
Iran being a tyrannical theocracy with grudge against the US is a direct result of the US overthrowing a democratically elected Iranian prime minister.
amaccuish 7y ago
> If the regime in Iran falls. It won’t be because of US sanctions. It will be because that country has been operated by a brutal dictator for decades, and the Iranian people grew tired of being the enemy of their own government. If so (that Iran falls not because of US sanctions), surely it follows that there is no point to the sanctions? They would only serve to embitter the targeted population.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  > surely it follows that there is no point to the sanctions? Not at all. Either the sanctions pressure Iran into changing their policies, or the sanctions restrict their ability or enact those policies. Of course the US is pressuring Iran to act according to the Interests of the US. But if you want to criticize that, you’d have to look at what they are in this situation. * Protecting allies in the region (which Iran openly and repeatedly vows to wipe of the map) * Preventing nuclear proliferation * Doing so while avoiding war You have to try quite hard to apply the USA-is-just-a-bully trope to this situation.
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meitham 7y ago

In all fairness, the Iranian government is more popular in Iran than the US govenment in the US. The US sanctions wasn't enacted to help the Iranian people, but to weaken a country that the US perceives as an adversary.

xtracto 7y ago
This is important. This kind of actions have to be taken as what they are: unilateral actions of a country against another. It is just the US defending what it sees as they interests. But for the rest of the world it is just a maneuver. For some people in the USA it is difficult to see it. Given their (expected) skew towards their country. But people outside that country can see it with a more objective perspective. Similar thing is happening with the concentration camps in the south.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  You’ve just described the foreign policy of every country in the world.
StaticRedux 7y ago
Are they? Or are the Iranian people too afraid of the Revolutionary Guard to say different? If you want to go that route, North Korea has the most popular government and leader on Earth. I don't think you can make claims about popularity of a government that can and does make people disappear who say otherwise.
- meitham 7y ago
  Two very different cultures. there has been several protests in Tehran in the last decade with no execution. NK has their own culture too where it's just wrong to critise their rules (or their parents). we need to stop looking at the world from a globalised western lens.
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    This comment seems borderline satire. But I guess you’re right. There’s the western way of approving of your government, where you’re free to make up your mind about whether you do or not, and the way that they do it in North Korea and Iran, where you have to constantly fear the consequences of not approving of your government in the appropriate government prescribed manner.
cronix 7y ago
> the Iranian government is more popular in Iran than the US govenment in the US It really would be sad if you controlled the media, religious doctrines as interpreted by the gov't (which you can't criticize), had censors, and couldn't pull that off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_of_Iran
- deleted 7y ago
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markvdb 7y ago

"These sanctions are entirely non-violent." Their effect on the rich in these countries mostly is. What about children dying because of a lack of medication? One could avoid a lot of collateral damage by targeting sanctions at specific powerful individuals. Think of the way some Russian oligarchs from Putin's inner circle got restricted by western sanctions.

ionised 7y ago

Iran being a tyrannical theocracy with grudge against the US is a direct result of the US overthrowing a democratically elected Iranian prime minister.

amaccuish 7y ago

> If the regime in Iran falls. It won’t be because of US sanctions. It will be because that country has been operated by a brutal dictator for decades, and the Iranian people grew tired of being the enemy of their own government. If so (that Iran falls not because of US sanctions), surely it follows that there is no point to the sanctions? They would only serve to embitter the targeted population.

AmericanChopper 7y ago
> surely it follows that there is no point to the sanctions? Not at all. Either the sanctions pressure Iran into changing their policies, or the sanctions restrict their ability or enact those policies. Of course the US is pressuring Iran to act according to the Interests of the US. But if you want to criticize that, you’d have to look at what they are in this situation. * Protecting allies in the region (which Iran openly and repeatedly vows to wipe of the map) * Preventing nuclear proliferation * Doing so while avoiding war You have to try quite hard to apply the USA-is-just-a-bully trope to this situation.

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