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World of Warcraft isn't meaningless. WoW is its own goal; doing well in WoW allows you to achieve happiness. I think you have to make a more convincing case fo

World of Warcraft isn't meaningless. WoW is its own goal; doing well in WoW allows you to achieve happiness. I think you have to make a more convincing case for why life has meaning and wow hasn't, you can't just spout platitudes and call it a day.

DougBTX 16y ago
I've not played WoW, but I'm guessing that the arguments from this article apply: http://mediacommons.futureofthebook.org/content/cultivated-play-farmville http://mediacommons.futureofthebook.org/content/cultivated-p... The gist is that Farmville isn't fun. Perhaps the problem is that WoW doesn't allow you to achieve happiness.
- mfukar 16y ago
  If it didn't, it wouldn't have upwards of 6 million subscribers.
  - henrikschroder 16y ago
    They're over 11 million active subscribers right now.
    - mfukar 16y ago
      Oh! Well, I suppose one can guess when I quit.. ;-)
javert 16y ago
World of Warcraft isn't meaningless. I didn't claim that it was meaningless. (I don't think that it is.) I don't really care about WoW. I was just responding to somebody's sad claim that "life is meaningless." doing well in WoW allows you to achieve happiness Doing well in WoW will not give you self esteem; it will not help you successfully deal with the real world (for example, providing for yourself materially and intellectually via a meaningful career). Successfully dealing with reality is a prerequisite of achieving an overall, lasting sense of happiness as a human being. I think you have to make a more convincing case for why life has meaning and wow hasn't, you can't just spout platitudes and call it a day. I'm not here to write a dissertation to prove my original claim--that you can find happiness in life, and (relatedly) that it has meaning, but that is objectively true. If you haven't or won't put forth the intellectual effort to discover this for yourself, that is truly sad.
- henrikschroder 16y ago
  > I was just responding to somebody's sad claim that "life is meaningless." Then you completely missed the point of what forensic wrote, because he did not claim that. The problem with articles such as this, which is what both forensic and me addressed, is that a lot of people claim that time spent on video games is wasted, that time spent in any sort of rat race is bad, without any sort of backing for that claim. And if you don't back the argument you can flip it, which is what me and forensic did.
  - javert 16y ago
    No, you're wrong. The author's statement amounted to: "WoW is meaningless for me and negatively impacts my life." forensic's statment amount to: "Well, who's to say life itself is any more meaningful?" My response is: "Wait a minute, I think it is meaningful." And I pointed out that you can achieve happiness in life (and by that I mean genuine self-esteem, not some temporary hedonistic pleasure like you get from playing a video game). You're also wrong in that backing WAS offered for the claim that time spent on WoW is wasteful; the blogger talks about that a lot, e.g. how you end up just getting more gear so you can go to a bigger dungeon and get more gear, and how spending too much time on WoW blocks you from pursuing major goals in real life (like becoming a paramedic).
    - forensic 16y ago
      Meaning is probably the single most subjective concept that exists. You can't tell someone else what is meaningful for them, which is what the OP is doing and you are implying. I guarantee there are people who find WOW to be far more meaningful than building a career in the health field. That's the nature of humanity. We all find meaning in strange and unique ways.
      - javert 16y ago
        The way we're using "meaning" in this discussion is improper, and I regret not pointing that out earlier. It's improper because the word is not (and cannot) be defined. I guarantee there are people who find WOW to be far more meaningful than building a career in the health field. I can't argue that because "meaningful" is not well-defined. However, I can make a related statement, as follows. Building a career in the real world is far more valuable to a person, as a human being, than building a "career" in WoW, because it allows a person to achieve real values in life--e.g. monetary wealth, respect from peers, self-sufficiency, and ultimately self-esteem and the genuine, pervasive kind of happiness that self-esteem makes possible. Wow does not allow one to achieve those values.

DougBTX 16y ago

I've not played WoW, but I'm guessing that the arguments from this article apply: http://mediacommons.futureofthebook.org/content/cultivated-play-farmville http://mediacommons.futureofthebook.org/content/cultivated-p... The gist is that Farmville isn't fun. Perhaps the problem is that WoW doesn't allow you to achieve happiness.

mfukar 16y ago
If it didn't, it wouldn't have upwards of 6 million subscribers.
- henrikschroder 16y ago
  They're over 11 million active subscribers right now.
  - mfukar 16y ago
    Oh! Well, I suppose one can guess when I quit.. ;-)

javert 16y ago

World of Warcraft isn't meaningless. I didn't claim that it was meaningless. (I don't think that it is.) I don't really care about WoW. I was just responding to somebody's sad claim that "life is meaningless." doing well in WoW allows you to achieve happiness Doing well in WoW will not give you self esteem; it will not help you successfully deal with the real world (for example, providing for yourself materially and intellectually via a meaningful career). Successfully dealing with reality is a prerequisite of achieving an overall, lasting sense of happiness as a human being. I think you have to make a more convincing case for why life has meaning and wow hasn't, you can't just spout platitudes and call it a day. I'm not here to write a dissertation to prove my original claim--that you can find happiness in life, and (relatedly) that it has meaning, but that is objectively true. If you haven't or won't put forth the intellectual effort to discover this for yourself, that is truly sad.

henrikschroder 16y ago
> I was just responding to somebody's sad claim that "life is meaningless." Then you completely missed the point of what forensic wrote, because he did not claim that. The problem with articles such as this, which is what both forensic and me addressed, is that a lot of people claim that time spent on video games is wasted, that time spent in any sort of rat race is bad, without any sort of backing for that claim. And if you don't back the argument you can flip it, which is what me and forensic did.
- javert 16y ago
  No, you're wrong. The author's statement amounted to: "WoW is meaningless for me and negatively impacts my life." forensic's statment amount to: "Well, who's to say life itself is any more meaningful?" My response is: "Wait a minute, I think it is meaningful." And I pointed out that you can achieve happiness in life (and by that I mean genuine self-esteem, not some temporary hedonistic pleasure like you get from playing a video game). You're also wrong in that backing WAS offered for the claim that time spent on WoW is wasteful; the blogger talks about that a lot, e.g. how you end up just getting more gear so you can go to a bigger dungeon and get more gear, and how spending too much time on WoW blocks you from pursuing major goals in real life (like becoming a paramedic).
  - forensic 16y ago
    Meaning is probably the single most subjective concept that exists. You can't tell someone else what is meaningful for them, which is what the OP is doing and you are implying. I guarantee there are people who find WOW to be far more meaningful than building a career in the health field. That's the nature of humanity. We all find meaning in strange and unique ways.
    - javert 16y ago
      The way we're using "meaning" in this discussion is improper, and I regret not pointing that out earlier. It's improper because the word is not (and cannot) be defined. I guarantee there are people who find WOW to be far more meaningful than building a career in the health field. I can't argue that because "meaningful" is not well-defined. However, I can make a related statement, as follows. Building a career in the real world is far more valuable to a person, as a human being, than building a "career" in WoW, because it allows a person to achieve real values in life--e.g. monetary wealth, respect from peers, self-sufficiency, and ultimately self-esteem and the genuine, pervasive kind of happiness that self-esteem makes possible. Wow does not allow one to achieve those values.