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What is "ultra processed" food? According to [1] it is stuff like: Soft drinks Packaged bread and buns Chips Candy Store-bought ice cream

What is "ultra processed" food? According to [1] it is stuff like: Soft drinks Packaged bread and buns Chips Candy Store-bought ice cream Boxed cake mix Instant noodles Infant formula Breakfast cereal Energy bars Flavored yogurt Chicken nuggets Fast food burgers Hot dogs Some of these make sense... other don't. But clearly the actual degree of processing required to obtain a given food item isn't the main factor to label it "ultra processed". You're gonna tell me my muesli energy bar is "ultra-processed"? It's literally just a bunch of grain sticking together. Besides, those qualifiers are really weird: linking the category of an item to the place it was purchased instead of its actual ingredients (Fast food burgers, store-bought ice cream, packaged bread and buns)? This smells like bullshit, clickbait, and health-craze pseudoscience. [1]: https://www.cookinglight.com/eating-smart/nutrition-101/what-is-ultra-processed-food https://www.cookinglight.com/eating-smart/nutrition-101/what...

orf 7y ago
Some grain bars are museli stuck together, others are akin to a paste mixed with all kinds of binding agents, sugar and other things to improve their shelf life. I’d cal those ultra processed. Sure, you can find exceptions to each of those groups, but most people are not eating whole-foods handmade-by-grandmothers 100% natural foods, are they.
Angostura 7y ago
Note - it said 'Energy Bars'. Here are the ingredients for the first Tesco branded energy bar I clicked on (Tesco is the UKs largest food retailer). " literally just a bunch of grain sticking together" is perhaps not typical. INGREDIENTS: Milk Chocolate Coating with Sweetener (25%)[Sweetener (Maltitol Syrup) , Cocoa Butter, Dried Whole Milk, Cocoa Mass, Emulsifier (Soya Lecithins), Vanilla Extract], Milk Proteins, Hydrolysed Beef Protein, Caramel layer with fibre (11%)[Polydextrose, Condensed Milk, Cocoa Butter, Humectant (Sorbitol Syrup), Emulsifier (Mono- and Di-Glycerides of Fatty Acids), Flavouring, Salt, Colour (Plain Caramel)], Humectant (Glycerol), Whey Protein Concentrate (Milk), Peanut (6%), Water, Coconut Oil, Peanut Paste (1.5%), Tripotassium Citrate, Tricalcium Citrate, Magnesium Hydroxide, Flavouring, Colour (Plain Caramel), Fat Reduced Cocoa Powder, Vitamin C, Ferric Diphosphate, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Zinc Oxide, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Folic Acid, Biotin.
- nsxwolf 7y ago
  Which of those ingredients are bad, and why?
  - foobar1962 7y ago
    Apart from the added water, every ingredient is a processed extract. Condensed milk, whey powder, etc. It's a list of industrially produced ingredients.
  - freddie_mercury 7y ago
    Why are changing from "processed" to "bad"? Are you claiming that none of those things are processed? Because that's what the OP was about, not good or bad.
    - balfirevic 7y ago
      You are not wrong, but it's worth noting that this HN submission would probably not even exist if processed didn't imply bad in many people's minds.
  - Angostura 7y ago
    I don't think I said it was bad. I was reacting to a comment suggesting that including energy bars as high processed was erroneous.
freddie_mercury 7y ago
If you actually wanted to know, all you had to do was click on the link to the underlying study. Ultra-processed food is food that meets the criteria according to the NOVA classification system. "Processes enabling the manufacture of ultra-processed foods include the fractioning of whole foods into substances, chemical modifications of these substances, assembly of unmodified and modified food substances, frequent use of cosmetic additives and sophisticated packaging. Processes and ingredients used to manufacture ultra-processed foods are designed to create highly profitable (low-cost ingredients, long shelf-life, emphatic branding), convenient (ready-to-consume), hyper-palatable products liable to displace all other NOVA food groups, notably unprocessed or minimally processed foods. A practical way to identify an ultra-processed product is to check to see if its list of ingredients contains at least one item characteristic of the NOVA ultra-processed food group, which is to say, either food substances never or rarely used in kitchens (such as high-fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated or interesterified oils, and hydrolysed proteins), or classes of additives designed to make the final product palatable or more appealing (such as flavours, flavour enhancers, colours, emulsifiers, emulsifying salts, sweeteners, thickeners, and anti-foaming, bulking, carbonating, foaming, gelling and glazing agents)."
jklepatch 7y ago
Ultra processed or not does not matter. What does matter is that beside raw ingredients most food is somewhat processed. i.e a lot of ingredients were added, especially sugar (even in food where the least expect it). A lot of these ingredients are nefarious, including sugar, especially if too much is consumed. (most people consume several time the recommended dose of sugar a day, even without eating very sweet - courtesy of the food industry for putting sugar everywhere).
II2II 7y ago
Ultra processed looks like a misnomer since they appear to be talking about the nutritional content. By their criteria, it appears as though homemade breads and ice cream would qualify as ultra processed even though they use fairly basic ingredients that are combined in very conventional ways. Yet their point is still valid. I recall a doctor talking about how unhealthy yogurt is due to its sugar content. If your a person like myself, who either makes their own yogurt or carefully selects brands of plain yogurt, the broad generalization is nonsensical. If you look at what's available on the store shelves, then over 90% of what they have is based on sugary flavoring. I suspect people buy yogurt since they are usually told that it's healthy, but usually end up reaching for the stuff that this study describes as ultra processes because that's the stuff that industry invests a lot of effort into making desirable (either through its formulation or advertising). I suspect that there are a number of factors that are contributing to this pseudoscience based health-craze: - It is easier to demonize food products based upon an overgeneralized label than it is to tell people to check the nutrition labels. - Most grocery stores dedicate most of their shelves to food with dubious nutritional value, may that be because the food is formulated to sell (which typically has high sodium or sugar content) or longer shelf life. - Most grocery stores are a poor option for the health conscious because of manipulative sales tactics. This ranges from the store layout, placement of particular products, and over generalized as well as likely misrepresenting of products as healthy. - A segment of the population feels like they are loosing control over dietary options. Some areas are surrounded by food sold by places convenience/dollar stores and restaurants, yet grocery stores that would support traditional home cooking are more difficult to access. When some people are faced with something that does not reflect their dietary values, or worse, does not meet their medical needs, is it surprising that they would start adopting extreme viewpoints?
- larssorenson 7y ago
  Re: stores that promote home cooking, their prices make them largely inaccessible to the broader market (and those who make less) since they tend to be branded "health food stores" and the markup is 50% or more. Heck, even the difference between two (differently named) grocery stores in my area, owned by the same larger company, can be that bad and neither is touted as a health food store.
MisterTea 7y ago
I personally can't stand the term "processed" when applied to food. Everything from harvesting/slaughtering/milling to prep and cooking is a process. I prefer the term "mass manufactured food", because that is exactly what it is, food mass produced in a factory.
- onemoresoop 7y ago
  With all the engineering available to increase shelflife and looks(colorants) to the detriment of the consumer’s health
- larssorenson 7y ago
  I would posit that even mass manufactured is slightly off point. For instance, if you can produce bread dough of the same consistency and quality with 4 ingredients (flour, water, salt, yeast) how does scaling it, in a factory or by hand, make it less healthy?
pickle-wizard 7y ago
This reminds me of a conversation I had a few years ago. A guy wouldn't eat Quaker quick oats because it was processed. It is literally the regular Quaker oats chopped up in smaller pieces. I got a good laugh out of it.

orf 7y ago

Some grain bars are museli stuck together, others are akin to a paste mixed with all kinds of binding agents, sugar and other things to improve their shelf life. I’d cal those ultra processed. Sure, you can find exceptions to each of those groups, but most people are not eating whole-foods handmade-by-grandmothers 100% natural foods, are they.

Angostura 7y ago

Note - it said 'Energy Bars'. Here are the ingredients for the first Tesco branded energy bar I clicked on (Tesco is the UKs largest food retailer). " literally just a bunch of grain sticking together" is perhaps not typical. INGREDIENTS: Milk Chocolate Coating with Sweetener (25%)[Sweetener (Maltitol Syrup) , Cocoa Butter, Dried Whole Milk, Cocoa Mass, Emulsifier (Soya Lecithins), Vanilla Extract], Milk Proteins, Hydrolysed Beef Protein, Caramel layer with fibre (11%)[Polydextrose, Condensed Milk, Cocoa Butter, Humectant (Sorbitol Syrup), Emulsifier (Mono- and Di-Glycerides of Fatty Acids), Flavouring, Salt, Colour (Plain Caramel)], Humectant (Glycerol), Whey Protein Concentrate (Milk), Peanut (6%), Water, Coconut Oil, Peanut Paste (1.5%), Tripotassium Citrate, Tricalcium Citrate, Magnesium Hydroxide, Flavouring, Colour (Plain Caramel), Fat Reduced Cocoa Powder, Vitamin C, Ferric Diphosphate, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Zinc Oxide, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Folic Acid, Biotin.

nsxwolf 7y ago
Which of those ingredients are bad, and why?
- foobar1962 7y ago
  Apart from the added water, every ingredient is a processed extract. Condensed milk, whey powder, etc. It's a list of industrially produced ingredients.
- freddie_mercury 7y ago
  Why are changing from "processed" to "bad"? Are you claiming that none of those things are processed? Because that's what the OP was about, not good or bad.
  - balfirevic 7y ago
    You are not wrong, but it's worth noting that this HN submission would probably not even exist if processed didn't imply bad in many people's minds.
- Angostura 7y ago
  I don't think I said it was bad. I was reacting to a comment suggesting that including energy bars as high processed was erroneous.

freddie_mercury 7y ago

If you actually wanted to know, all you had to do was click on the link to the underlying study. Ultra-processed food is food that meets the criteria according to the NOVA classification system. "Processes enabling the manufacture of ultra-processed foods include the fractioning of whole foods into substances, chemical modifications of these substances, assembly of unmodified and modified food substances, frequent use of cosmetic additives and sophisticated packaging. Processes and ingredients used to manufacture ultra-processed foods are designed to create highly profitable (low-cost ingredients, long shelf-life, emphatic branding), convenient (ready-to-consume), hyper-palatable products liable to displace all other NOVA food groups, notably unprocessed or minimally processed foods. A practical way to identify an ultra-processed product is to check to see if its list of ingredients contains at least one item characteristic of the NOVA ultra-processed food group, which is to say, either food substances never or rarely used in kitchens (such as high-fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated or interesterified oils, and hydrolysed proteins), or classes of additives designed to make the final product palatable or more appealing (such as flavours, flavour enhancers, colours, emulsifiers, emulsifying salts, sweeteners, thickeners, and anti-foaming, bulking, carbonating, foaming, gelling and glazing agents)."

jklepatch 7y ago

Ultra processed or not does not matter. What does matter is that beside raw ingredients most food is somewhat processed. i.e a lot of ingredients were added, especially sugar (even in food where the least expect it). A lot of these ingredients are nefarious, including sugar, especially if too much is consumed. (most people consume several time the recommended dose of sugar a day, even without eating very sweet - courtesy of the food industry for putting sugar everywhere).

II2II 7y ago

Ultra processed looks like a misnomer since they appear to be talking about the nutritional content. By their criteria, it appears as though homemade breads and ice cream would qualify as ultra processed even though they use fairly basic ingredients that are combined in very conventional ways. Yet their point is still valid. I recall a doctor talking about how unhealthy yogurt is due to its sugar content. If your a person like myself, who either makes their own yogurt or carefully selects brands of plain yogurt, the broad generalization is nonsensical. If you look at what's available on the store shelves, then over 90% of what they have is based on sugary flavoring. I suspect people buy yogurt since they are usually told that it's healthy, but usually end up reaching for the stuff that this study describes as ultra processes because that's the stuff that industry invests a lot of effort into making desirable (either through its formulation or advertising). I suspect that there are a number of factors that are contributing to this pseudoscience based health-craze: - It is easier to demonize food products based upon an overgeneralized label than it is to tell people to check the nutrition labels. - Most grocery stores dedicate most of their shelves to food with dubious nutritional value, may that be because the food is formulated to sell (which typically has high sodium or sugar content) or longer shelf life. - Most grocery stores are a poor option for the health conscious because of manipulative sales tactics. This ranges from the store layout, placement of particular products, and over generalized as well as likely misrepresenting of products as healthy. - A segment of the population feels like they are loosing control over dietary options. Some areas are surrounded by food sold by places convenience/dollar stores and restaurants, yet grocery stores that would support traditional home cooking are more difficult to access. When some people are faced with something that does not reflect their dietary values, or worse, does not meet their medical needs, is it surprising that they would start adopting extreme viewpoints?

larssorenson 7y ago
Re: stores that promote home cooking, their prices make them largely inaccessible to the broader market (and those who make less) since they tend to be branded "health food stores" and the markup is 50% or more. Heck, even the difference between two (differently named) grocery stores in my area, owned by the same larger company, can be that bad and neither is touted as a health food store.

MisterTea 7y ago

I personally can't stand the term "processed" when applied to food. Everything from harvesting/slaughtering/milling to prep and cooking is a process. I prefer the term "mass manufactured food", because that is exactly what it is, food mass produced in a factory.

onemoresoop 7y ago
With all the engineering available to increase shelflife and looks(colorants) to the detriment of the consumer’s health
larssorenson 7y ago
I would posit that even mass manufactured is slightly off point. For instance, if you can produce bread dough of the same consistency and quality with 4 ingredients (flour, water, salt, yeast) how does scaling it, in a factory or by hand, make it less healthy?

pickle-wizard 7y ago

This reminds me of a conversation I had a few years ago. A guy wouldn't eat Quaker quick oats because it was processed. It is literally the regular Quaker oats chopped up in smaller pieces. I got a good laugh out of it.