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I think you should look at what happens to prices when you legislatively engineer increased demand/accessibility: https://www.digitalbrew.com/quality-speed-pri

I think you should look at what happens to prices when you legislatively engineer increased demand/accessibility: https://www.digitalbrew.com/quality-speed-price-unattainable-triangle/ https://www.digitalbrew.com/quality-speed-price-unattainable...

mnm1 7y ago
I think you should look at what happens to sick people when you legislatively prevent them from getting healthcare. They die. Plenty of other countries have figured out how to provide healthcare for all their citizens either through a government run plan or through private insurance. Are Americans that stupid they can't figure it out? Or are they just so cruel they'd rather let their own citizens die so a few people can get rich? Probably both.
- 18pfsmt 7y ago
  Everybody dies. The only certainties in this world are death and taxes, as the saying goes. You are focused on outcomes instead of principles, to your detriment. This shit is so cynical: We should sacrifice individual freedom to get an extra 5 years of existence where someone wipes our ass. Like that's dignified. Fascist garbage that will be met with equal force should you choose to pursue radical means to achieve it.
  - mnm1 7y ago
    Yeah but when you die is of significance. I bet if you had a curable form of cancer or other illness, you'd want to be cured and live longer instead of dying six months from now. Your argument is nonsense. You'd do anything in your power to get healthcare if it was you. But of course, when it applies to other people, let them die prematurely. That's your idea of freedom? The freedom to die? That's some sick kind of thinking. Of course, as you imply, as long as it's not happening to you, you'd rather let others die even though it doesn't benefit you at all to let them die. Sure we could spend money to help others, but since it doesn't benefit you, this is fascist. I don't think you even understand what freedom is and likely have never experienced it, but you seem to think you will lose it if other people get healthcare. This is exactly the kind of stupid, disgusting, morbid thinking that keeps us from having proper healthcare in the US and exactly why so many people hate conservatives and Republicans in the US. We're tired of being told our lives are not worth saving or living by people who only want to profit off of our misery and death as you seem to advocate here. All in the name of "freedom" something Americans truly know nothing about outside of idiotic slogans, marketing, and propaganda they memorize and recite like broken records. A child could see through the farce that is "freedom" to Americans.
    - 18pfsmt 7y ago
      >A child could see through the farce that is "freedom" to Americans. That's why all these command-and-control economies rely on innovation from America. It's not health care, it's health services where other people are doing this work. You fail to account for people doing work, and you twist the definitions of words to a vast degree. Other countries use their government to force pricing (it's not negotiation) on these innovators. One does not get to simultaneously demand these products (which come from innovation) and dictate their pricing. Back in 2008, I deemed FB's requirement of a "real name" too steep and I refused to participate. As I've mentioned many times on HN, I would pay for your flight to Denver so you can say this stuff right to my face (per HN Guidelines), but none of you are willing to accept. I assure you I am quite civil, but I do not suffer fools.
      - mnm1 7y ago
        You'd pay for my flight so you can call me names in person but not to help save someone's life. What's sad is that there are way too many people who think this way. They'd do anything except help another human being. It's practically built into the culture.
        18pfsmt 7y ago
        At this point, I doubt you are allowed into the USA. You are so cowardly, you are unwilling to visit even without a personal expense (I promised to pay). I have no words for you, and I wish you'd find a platform where you can espouse your unAmerican ideals. In America, we call that a wimp. I have no interest in name-calling, just confronting my accuser. I'm a proud member of the Navajo Nation, but I try not to wear it on my sleeve. We lost 66% of our land to the great nation of the USA, so I would appreciate if you step back. The trade-off was worth it.
        mnm1 7y ago
        I'd fear for my life if I took you up on your offer but thanks anyway. I'm not surprised others haven't taken you up on it. You advocate for citizens not to be let into the US due to their opinions and you call me unamerican (not to mention the threats in the other thread). Lol. I guess in your America, only people who share your beliefs are welcome. If that is what America is, then it is, as the current president called it, a shithole and the reason for that is people like you. You can call me a wimp or any other names while pretending not to call me names in two consecutive sentences. In my America, we have freedom of speech still, one of the few freedoms that still exist, so that's fine (not so much on hn, but that's another issue). I expect that from people with as much hate as you espouse here. But god forbid you help a person that's dying by supporting a proper healthcare system. That would be antithetical to everything you stand for, wouldn't it?

mnm1 7y ago

I think you should look at what happens to sick people when you legislatively prevent them from getting healthcare. They die. Plenty of other countries have figured out how to provide healthcare for all their citizens either through a government run plan or through private insurance. Are Americans that stupid they can't figure it out? Or are they just so cruel they'd rather let their own citizens die so a few people can get rich? Probably both.

18pfsmt 7y ago
Everybody dies. The only certainties in this world are death and taxes, as the saying goes. You are focused on outcomes instead of principles, to your detriment. This shit is so cynical: We should sacrifice individual freedom to get an extra 5 years of existence where someone wipes our ass. Like that's dignified. Fascist garbage that will be met with equal force should you choose to pursue radical means to achieve it.
- mnm1 7y ago
  Yeah but when you die is of significance. I bet if you had a curable form of cancer or other illness, you'd want to be cured and live longer instead of dying six months from now. Your argument is nonsense. You'd do anything in your power to get healthcare if it was you. But of course, when it applies to other people, let them die prematurely. That's your idea of freedom? The freedom to die? That's some sick kind of thinking. Of course, as you imply, as long as it's not happening to you, you'd rather let others die even though it doesn't benefit you at all to let them die. Sure we could spend money to help others, but since it doesn't benefit you, this is fascist. I don't think you even understand what freedom is and likely have never experienced it, but you seem to think you will lose it if other people get healthcare. This is exactly the kind of stupid, disgusting, morbid thinking that keeps us from having proper healthcare in the US and exactly why so many people hate conservatives and Republicans in the US. We're tired of being told our lives are not worth saving or living by people who only want to profit off of our misery and death as you seem to advocate here. All in the name of "freedom" something Americans truly know nothing about outside of idiotic slogans, marketing, and propaganda they memorize and recite like broken records. A child could see through the farce that is "freedom" to Americans.
  - 18pfsmt 7y ago
    >A child could see through the farce that is "freedom" to Americans. That's why all these command-and-control economies rely on innovation from America. It's not health care, it's health services where other people are doing this work. You fail to account for people doing work, and you twist the definitions of words to a vast degree. Other countries use their government to force pricing (it's not negotiation) on these innovators. One does not get to simultaneously demand these products (which come from innovation) and dictate their pricing. Back in 2008, I deemed FB's requirement of a "real name" too steep and I refused to participate. As I've mentioned many times on HN, I would pay for your flight to Denver so you can say this stuff right to my face (per HN Guidelines), but none of you are willing to accept. I assure you I am quite civil, but I do not suffer fools.
    - mnm1 7y ago
      You'd pay for my flight so you can call me names in person but not to help save someone's life. What's sad is that there are way too many people who think this way. They'd do anything except help another human being. It's practically built into the culture.
      - 18pfsmt 7y ago
        At this point, I doubt you are allowed into the USA. You are so cowardly, you are unwilling to visit even without a personal expense (I promised to pay). I have no words for you, and I wish you'd find a platform where you can espouse your unAmerican ideals. In America, we call that a wimp. I have no interest in name-calling, just confronting my accuser. I'm a proud member of the Navajo Nation, but I try not to wear it on my sleeve. We lost 66% of our land to the great nation of the USA, so I would appreciate if you step back. The trade-off was worth it.
        mnm1 7y ago
        I'd fear for my life if I took you up on your offer but thanks anyway. I'm not surprised others haven't taken you up on it. You advocate for citizens not to be let into the US due to their opinions and you call me unamerican (not to mention the threats in the other thread). Lol. I guess in your America, only people who share your beliefs are welcome. If that is what America is, then it is, as the current president called it, a shithole and the reason for that is people like you. You can call me a wimp or any other names while pretending not to call me names in two consecutive sentences. In my America, we have freedom of speech still, one of the few freedoms that still exist, so that's fine (not so much on hn, but that's another issue). I expect that from people with as much hate as you espouse here. But god forbid you help a person that's dying by supporting a proper healthcare system. That would be antithetical to everything you stand for, wouldn't it?