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This is easily addressed by requiring your Amazon sellers to not use commingling. I've even seen a handful of companies that require their sellers not to use FB

by ikeboy 7y ago

This is easily addressed by requiring your Amazon sellers to not use commingling. I've even seen a handful of companies that require their sellers not to use FBA. >counterfeiters get access to sell the real products to minimize returns and thus issues with credit cards etc. Not following. Amazon knows which unit was sold by which seller, so they can attribute returns to the correct seller even if was actually sold by another.

beastcoast 7y ago
Only if the seller pays more to keep their products separate via stickering. Otherwise the seller’s products are commingled with other sellers’ products and it’s impossible to know which seller’s physical inventory was used to fulfill the order.
- ikeboy 7y ago
  This is false. Amazon keeps them separate and knows which seller originally shipped in each unit.
  - erik_seaberg 7y ago
    A quick search turned up https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/t/how-to-prevent-commingling/316711 https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/t/how-to-prevent-com... suggesting products actually have been commingled and you need to replace stock with a different SKU label to opt out in the future.
    - ikeboy 7y ago
      Yes, once you have products in the program you can't recall those specific products - this should be obvious, because Amazon may have already shipped some or all of the actual products you sent in for someone else's sales. However, that does not mean Amazon hasn't been keeping track. They explicitly say that they keep track of which seller originally shipped each item. See https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200141480?language=en-US&ref=mpbc_200243180_cont_200141480 https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200141480?...
      - bigtex 7y ago
        Too many instances of this happening for this to be the case. Plenty of reports on this site and others stating they bought from the proper Amazon seller and still getting counterfeit product. I bought a SpyderCo knife "Ship and Sold by Amazon" that was an obvious fake. I just think Amazon doesn't care, they shipped a free replacement that happened to be legitimate.
        ikeboy 7y ago
        >Plenty of reports on this site and others stating they bought from the proper Amazon seller and still getting counterfeit product. That's entirely consistent with them tracking it. If you report that, they'll know who actually shipped it in and will punish them.
        jessaustin 7y ago
        What sort of punishment are we talking about? They can't take back money they've already paid out. Do they throw away the rest of the products?
        ikeboy 7y ago
        https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/19/18140799/amazon-marketplace-scams-seller-court-appeal-reinstatement https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/19/18140799/amazon-marketpl...
        jessaustin 7y ago
        Two things. First, your link describes various punishments suffered by "good guys": legitimate sellers who've built up a brand and product set over time, whose thin margins are destroyed by those punishments. The bad guys don't have to spend near as much money on their fake goods, so their margins aren't thin and these punishments are simply a cost of doing business. They also structure their Amazon relationship differently, with lots of different accounts and brands and products, so that any particular adverse event won't kill them. Second, I don't see anywhere in that link where they're talking about commingling and its related issues. I think that was already a well-publicized issue back in December when this link was published, so I assume that they didn't mention it in order to curry favor with either Amazon or with the various entrepreneurs in the Amazon ecosystem who agreed to be quoted. This link certainly doesn't establish that malignant comminglers are ever punished in any way.
Retric 7y ago
Amazon may eventually catch on, but it’s a ticking clock until they get paid and disappear. Day A, they ship X fakes to Amazon. Day B, they sell at slightly below market rates to sell as quickly as possible. Importantly as they have the lowest price they should get the bulk of orders. Selling off a mix of real units from others and fake units from themselves. If they are a fairly low percentage of the market it could take a while for any significant number of their fakes to be shipped. Now it’s a race if they get paid by Amazon before Amazon catches on. Obviously this works best if the fakes are close to the real product so it takes a while before a significant number of people notice. Think functional but substandard USB cables etc.
- ikeboy 7y ago
  It's not randomly chosen which units get shipped. It has to do with location, ownership, risk, and other things. If a brand new seller is selling they're likely not to commingle their high risk products until they've proven themselves. It's not nearly as easy as you think. Some categories have commingling turned off completely.
  - Retric 7y ago
    > It's not nearly as easy as you think. Sure, but it does not have to be successful to harm the reputation of a manufacturer. The issue is it’s a cat and mouse game with some actual winners which get others to try and do the same.
    - ikeboy 7y ago
      That's not a reason to avoid selling any units on Amazon. The only brands this may be relevant to is very high end luxury brands, some of which avoid Amazon sales for that reason.

by ikeboy 7y ago

beastcoast 7y ago

Only if the seller pays more to keep their products separate via stickering. Otherwise the seller’s products are commingled with other sellers’ products and it’s impossible to know which seller’s physical inventory was used to fulfill the order.

ikeboy 7y ago
This is false. Amazon keeps them separate and knows which seller originally shipped in each unit.
- erik_seaberg 7y ago
  A quick search turned up https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/t/how-to-prevent-commingling/316711 https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/t/how-to-prevent-com... suggesting products actually have been commingled and you need to replace stock with a different SKU label to opt out in the future.
  - ikeboy 7y ago
    Yes, once you have products in the program you can't recall those specific products - this should be obvious, because Amazon may have already shipped some or all of the actual products you sent in for someone else's sales. However, that does not mean Amazon hasn't been keeping track. They explicitly say that they keep track of which seller originally shipped each item. See https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200141480?language=en-US&ref=mpbc_200243180_cont_200141480 https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/200141480?...
    - bigtex 7y ago
      Too many instances of this happening for this to be the case. Plenty of reports on this site and others stating they bought from the proper Amazon seller and still getting counterfeit product. I bought a SpyderCo knife "Ship and Sold by Amazon" that was an obvious fake. I just think Amazon doesn't care, they shipped a free replacement that happened to be legitimate.
      - ikeboy 7y ago
        >Plenty of reports on this site and others stating they bought from the proper Amazon seller and still getting counterfeit product. That's entirely consistent with them tracking it. If you report that, they'll know who actually shipped it in and will punish them.
        jessaustin 7y ago
        What sort of punishment are we talking about? They can't take back money they've already paid out. Do they throw away the rest of the products?
        ikeboy 7y ago
        https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/19/18140799/amazon-marketplace-scams-seller-court-appeal-reinstatement https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/19/18140799/amazon-marketpl...
        jessaustin 7y ago
        Two things. First, your link describes various punishments suffered by "good guys": legitimate sellers who've built up a brand and product set over time, whose thin margins are destroyed by those punishments. The bad guys don't have to spend near as much money on their fake goods, so their margins aren't thin and these punishments are simply a cost of doing business. They also structure their Amazon relationship differently, with lots of different accounts and brands and products, so that any particular adverse event won't kill them. Second, I don't see anywhere in that link where they're talking about commingling and its related issues. I think that was already a well-publicized issue back in December when this link was published, so I assume that they didn't mention it in order to curry favor with either Amazon or with the various entrepreneurs in the Amazon ecosystem who agreed to be quoted. This link certainly doesn't establish that malignant comminglers are ever punished in any way.

Retric 7y ago

Amazon may eventually catch on, but it’s a ticking clock until they get paid and disappear. Day A, they ship X fakes to Amazon. Day B, they sell at slightly below market rates to sell as quickly as possible. Importantly as they have the lowest price they should get the bulk of orders. Selling off a mix of real units from others and fake units from themselves. If they are a fairly low percentage of the market it could take a while for any significant number of their fakes to be shipped. Now it’s a race if they get paid by Amazon before Amazon catches on. Obviously this works best if the fakes are close to the real product so it takes a while before a significant number of people notice. Think functional but substandard USB cables etc.

ikeboy 7y ago
It's not randomly chosen which units get shipped. It has to do with location, ownership, risk, and other things. If a brand new seller is selling they're likely not to commingle their high risk products until they've proven themselves. It's not nearly as easy as you think. Some categories have commingling turned off completely.
- Retric 7y ago
  > It's not nearly as easy as you think. Sure, but it does not have to be successful to harm the reputation of a manufacturer. The issue is it’s a cat and mouse game with some actual winners which get others to try and do the same.
  - ikeboy 7y ago
    That's not a reason to avoid selling any units on Amazon. The only brands this may be relevant to is very high end luxury brands, some of which avoid Amazon sales for that reason.