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Well maybe we free-software people need to think a little more in terms of convenience for newcomers and inexperienced users? That doesn't mean we can't have t

Well maybe we free-software people need to think a little more in terms of convenience for newcomers and inexperienced users? That doesn't mean we can't have the scripting/theming system power users just love. But maybe we can provide usable defaults and a nice UI? (When i say a nice UI i don't mean necessarily a GUI with blinks and flashes everywhere. some CLI tools have a good UI, some don't. See for example https://github.com/chmln/sd https://github.com/chmln/sd )

tempguy9999 7y ago
This is not about GUIs, and bringing a trivial sed replacement into it is an utterly irrelevance.
- southerntofu 7y ago
  Well, i think what you called convenience is mostly a UI question in the view of end-users, which is why i brought it to the table although the initial debate was whether we could trust proprietary software at all. Sorry if you thought that was irrelevant. Just to be clear, i do not prefer software with a good interface over free software. But many people make this decision consciously and we should take that into account when developing software. I'm saying this as a free-software advocate myself who've been running GNU/Linux for ~15y and helped hundreds of neighbors, friends and comrades free themselves from proprietary software over the years.
  - tempguy9999 7y ago
    > Well, i think what you called convenience is mostly a UI question Gordon bennet. No. Do you really think stallman's view is about who owns your car, or about the knobs on the dashboard? From https://conversations.e-flux.com/t/every-non-free-program-is-an-injustice-richard-stallman-on-the-free-software-movement/8474 https://conversations.e-flux.com/t/every-non-free-program-is... : <<< What’s your definition of free software? Free software is software that respects users’ freedom and community. [...] With any program, there are two possibilities: either the users control the program, or the program controls the users. [...] If they don’t have full control over [the program], then it’s user-subjugating, non-free proprietary software — the program controls the users, and the program’s owners control the program, so it becomes an instrument of unjust power for the owner over the users. >>> > although the initial debate was whether we could trust proprietary software at all Precisely that.

tempguy9999 7y ago

This is not about GUIs, and bringing a trivial sed replacement into it is an utterly irrelevance.

southerntofu 7y ago
Well, i think what you called convenience is mostly a UI question in the view of end-users, which is why i brought it to the table although the initial debate was whether we could trust proprietary software at all. Sorry if you thought that was irrelevant. Just to be clear, i do not prefer software with a good interface over free software. But many people make this decision consciously and we should take that into account when developing software. I'm saying this as a free-software advocate myself who've been running GNU/Linux for ~15y and helped hundreds of neighbors, friends and comrades free themselves from proprietary software over the years.
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  > Well, i think what you called convenience is mostly a UI question Gordon bennet. No. Do you really think stallman's view is about who owns your car, or about the knobs on the dashboard? From https://conversations.e-flux.com/t/every-non-free-program-is-an-injustice-richard-stallman-on-the-free-software-movement/8474 https://conversations.e-flux.com/t/every-non-free-program-is... : <<< What’s your definition of free software? Free software is software that respects users’ freedom and community. [...] With any program, there are two possibilities: either the users control the program, or the program controls the users. [...] If they don’t have full control over [the program], then it’s user-subjugating, non-free proprietary software — the program controls the users, and the program’s owners control the program, so it becomes an instrument of unjust power for the owner over the users. >>> > although the initial debate was whether we could trust proprietary software at all Precisely that.