4 ms·

I think there’s a general feeling (propaganda?) that the US is a technological leader, but... there’s nothing to support that, especially when it comes to infra

I think there’s a general feeling (propaganda?) that the US is a technological leader, but... there’s nothing to support that, especially when it comes to infrastructure. The US is really far behind other developed countries in a lot of ways but few people in the US notice because most Americans rarely ever look outside their culture bubble or see another country. There are big-ass tech companies, of course, but the country itself is not exactly a paragon of progress.

qaq 7y ago
I think you are oversimplifying the issue. There are cultural differences that influence things like that too. As priorities shift things can change. So in US you have people living in large houses driving large cars and on average having crappy public transport infra. In Europe you have people living in much more modest size houses mostly driving tiny cars and often having good public transport infra. For me European option is better cause I do not drive my wife much prefers the US option.
- concerned_user 7y ago
  I think you are wrong here, what you said is mostly about how it is in big cities versus the rural areas, same thing is in Europe. You will not find a lot of mass transit in European countryside, sure there are buses and trains probably more abundant than in USA but be prepared to walk a few kilometers to the nearest station. Your point would make sense if USA had high-speed trains linking big cities but it doesn't, and the train routes that do exist experience all sorts of delays which makes people choose planes even for shorter distances under 500 km which would take ~2 hr on high speed train.
  - qaq 7y ago
    Where did I say that it's about rural areas vs big cities ? In most US metro areas majority of people of people live in houses. In US people either drive or fly. There is good infra for long range driving. This has nothing to do with large cities vs rural areas for the most part.
    - throwawaycert 7y ago
      There is still a serious linguistic disconnect here. You’re talking about what are essentially suburbs. Big cities are mostly apartments and condos. This is true throughout the developed world including in the US, but for some reason in the US we ended up calling every group of houses and a general store “city”.
      - bobthepanda 7y ago
        I mean, if you want to split hairs, then yes most Americans live in the suburbs of metropolitan areas, which is because of and also the reason for shitty American infra. If you are looking for Berlin+ levels of density that would be the 7th percentile of American zip codes. The person you are responding to never even used the word cities.
        throwawaycert 7y ago
        Yes. It’s not splitting hairs, it’s looking at the root of the problem: Americans live inefficiently and in our bubble it seems “normal” because we have normalized severe deviance from good social, economic, and environmental practices and lifestyles.
      - tialaramex 7y ago
        Yeah. In the UK a city needs central government paperwork (notionally through the Queen). They hold competitions to pick new ones. If a million people go live somewhere that's a really big town, but it only becomes a city when the Queen says so. Being a city makes no direct practical difference to anything, it's like being elected homecoming king. In the US city status makes an important practical difference to how an area is run and what the people running it can do independently of the State they're in. So it makes sense every settlement with a general store and a paved road would want that status.
        vonmoltke 7y ago
        > n the US city status makes an important practical difference to how an area is run and what the people running it can do independently of the State they're in. The status of various municipal designations varies greatly based on state laws. Generally, government levels go state->county->municipality. The type and form of a municipality generally only affects how it is organized, not its level of independence from higher levels of government. Some states restrict types and forms based on size, though.
- pizza234 7y ago
  I find it scandalous the perception that anything that is not a SUV is tiny. One of the most sold cars in Europe is the Volkswagen Golf; I don't see how that is tiny. Interestingly, I see that mid and large size classes (mid-size being a "large family car") originated in USA, which makes me wonder if that's a typical American perception. I'd even argue that 1400+ kg for moving around an average of 1.5 person/120 kg (I think an average of 2 people is too generous), during a time of ecological crisis, is tragic, and in my opinion, describes perfectly how there's no hope.
  - frankharv 7y ago
    The Golf has been a compact car in the USA since the day it was delivered to our shores in the 70's. Are compact cars tiny? That is debatable. Compared to a 1961 Lincon Continental with suicide doors it is very tiny.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
mehrdadn 7y ago
> I think there’s a general feeling (propaganda?) that the US is a technological leader, but... there’s nothing to support that, especially when it comes to infrastructure. I feel like it's worth making a distinction between having the relevant capabilities/resources for a technology vs. actually deploying it in its infrastructure?
crimsonalucard 7y ago
It's not propaganda. The US went to the moon, this is something sweden can never pull off. What's going on in the US is not a technology problem. It's a problem with politics and business. There is no business or political interest in building up public transportation in this country. For historical reasons, the U.S. legal system offers citizens an unparalleled number of veto points at which they can attempt to block government projects. Any infrastructure project bigger than painting a schoolhouse thus has to either fight out the reviews and court cases for years, or buy off the opponents, or more likely, both. The lack of infrastructure definitely affects perception and quality of life. Make no mistake though, currently the united states is one of the technology leaders of the world. Key word: currently.
dang 7y ago
Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. I'm sure that wasn't your intent, but that's the probable outcome of comments like this. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20547137 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20547137 and marked it off-topic.
- moreira 7y ago
  Thanks - I just opened HN and saw the replies to the comment now and it does seem like it descended into unproductive discussion. I’m glad it was marked off-topic and removed.

qaq 7y ago

I think you are oversimplifying the issue. There are cultural differences that influence things like that too. As priorities shift things can change. So in US you have people living in large houses driving large cars and on average having crappy public transport infra. In Europe you have people living in much more modest size houses mostly driving tiny cars and often having good public transport infra. For me European option is better cause I do not drive my wife much prefers the US option.

concerned_user 7y ago
I think you are wrong here, what you said is mostly about how it is in big cities versus the rural areas, same thing is in Europe. You will not find a lot of mass transit in European countryside, sure there are buses and trains probably more abundant than in USA but be prepared to walk a few kilometers to the nearest station. Your point would make sense if USA had high-speed trains linking big cities but it doesn't, and the train routes that do exist experience all sorts of delays which makes people choose planes even for shorter distances under 500 km which would take ~2 hr on high speed train.
- qaq 7y ago
  Where did I say that it's about rural areas vs big cities ? In most US metro areas majority of people of people live in houses. In US people either drive or fly. There is good infra for long range driving. This has nothing to do with large cities vs rural areas for the most part.
  - throwawaycert 7y ago
    There is still a serious linguistic disconnect here. You’re talking about what are essentially suburbs. Big cities are mostly apartments and condos. This is true throughout the developed world including in the US, but for some reason in the US we ended up calling every group of houses and a general store “city”.
    - bobthepanda 7y ago
      I mean, if you want to split hairs, then yes most Americans live in the suburbs of metropolitan areas, which is because of and also the reason for shitty American infra. If you are looking for Berlin+ levels of density that would be the 7th percentile of American zip codes. The person you are responding to never even used the word cities.
      - throwawaycert 7y ago
        Yes. It’s not splitting hairs, it’s looking at the root of the problem: Americans live inefficiently and in our bubble it seems “normal” because we have normalized severe deviance from good social, economic, and environmental practices and lifestyles.
    - tialaramex 7y ago
      Yeah. In the UK a city needs central government paperwork (notionally through the Queen). They hold competitions to pick new ones. If a million people go live somewhere that's a really big town, but it only becomes a city when the Queen says so. Being a city makes no direct practical difference to anything, it's like being elected homecoming king. In the US city status makes an important practical difference to how an area is run and what the people running it can do independently of the State they're in. So it makes sense every settlement with a general store and a paved road would want that status.
      - vonmoltke 7y ago
        > n the US city status makes an important practical difference to how an area is run and what the people running it can do independently of the State they're in. The status of various municipal designations varies greatly based on state laws. Generally, government levels go state->county->municipality. The type and form of a municipality generally only affects how it is organized, not its level of independence from higher levels of government. Some states restrict types and forms based on size, though.
pizza234 7y ago
I find it scandalous the perception that anything that is not a SUV is tiny. One of the most sold cars in Europe is the Volkswagen Golf; I don't see how that is tiny. Interestingly, I see that mid and large size classes (mid-size being a "large family car") originated in USA, which makes me wonder if that's a typical American perception. I'd even argue that 1400+ kg for moving around an average of 1.5 person/120 kg (I think an average of 2 people is too generous), during a time of ecological crisis, is tragic, and in my opinion, describes perfectly how there's no hope.
- frankharv 7y ago
  The Golf has been a compact car in the USA since the day it was delivered to our shores in the 70's. Are compact cars tiny? That is debatable. Compared to a 1961 Lincon Continental with suicide doors it is very tiny.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

mehrdadn 7y ago

> I think there’s a general feeling (propaganda?) that the US is a technological leader, but... there’s nothing to support that, especially when it comes to infrastructure. I feel like it's worth making a distinction between having the relevant capabilities/resources for a technology vs. actually deploying it in its infrastructure?

crimsonalucard 7y ago

It's not propaganda. The US went to the moon, this is something sweden can never pull off. What's going on in the US is not a technology problem. It's a problem with politics and business. There is no business or political interest in building up public transportation in this country. For historical reasons, the U.S. legal system offers citizens an unparalleled number of veto points at which they can attempt to block government projects. Any infrastructure project bigger than painting a schoolhouse thus has to either fight out the reviews and court cases for years, or buy off the opponents, or more likely, both. The lack of infrastructure definitely affects perception and quality of life. Make no mistake though, currently the united states is one of the technology leaders of the world. Key word: currently.

dang 7y ago

Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. I'm sure that wasn't your intent, but that's the probable outcome of comments like this. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20547137 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20547137 and marked it off-topic.

moreira 7y ago
Thanks - I just opened HN and saw the replies to the comment now and it does seem like it descended into unproductive discussion. I’m glad it was marked off-topic and removed.