8 ms·

How crooks stalled the rise of electric cars for 100 years (2017)

39 points by XnoiVeX 7y ago

travisoneill1 7y ago
> Each battery weighed around 1.75 tons and could power a bus for just 60 kilometers. Charging took almost 8 hours But clearly it was the fact that one electric bus company was run by crooks in 1906 that held back electric cars for a century.
- tomatotomato37 7y ago
  I always thought it was crazy how all those alternative history folks think that the material & chemical sciences of the time that could barely rev an IC engine made out of the most industrialized material ever over 1000 rpm without knocking or throwing a rod could also handle batteries which today require rare-earth materials and exotic chemistries.
  - mattmaroon 7y ago
    Yeah even today after several more decades of battery science we can just barely make an electric car economical. We still can't get one down to Camry prices.
    - _red 7y ago
      Electric cars are really fun to drive from a sports perspective, its just a shame they have such huge carbon footprints. Singapore, who has some of best pollution regulations of any modern state, has rated electric cars as "super polluter" status.
      - ethbro 7y ago
        > Singapore, who has some of best pollution regulations of any modern state, has rated electric cars as "super polluter" status. Because they measure CO2 emission at the electrical generation point. Not Tesla's fault Singapore plants are almost 100% natural gas. https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/electric-car-tesla-slapped-with-15000-tax-surcharge https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/electric-ca... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Singapore https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Singap...
        tim333 7y ago
        Though in the future there are plans to run a cable to solar panels in Australia. (Slightly surprisingly - you'd think Malaysia was closer and sunny enough). https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/14/just-a-matter-of-when-the-20bn-plan-to-power-singapore-with-australian-solar https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/14/just-a-m...
  - gsich 7y ago
    Lead batteries don't.
    - rightbyte 7y ago
      The biggest andvantage for lead batteries is probably that you don't need cell balancing which would have been really hard at that time. You just overcharge all cells and call it a day. Really nice batteries from a robustness perspective.
    - tomatotomato37 7y ago
      To a 1910 industrialist acid batteries were exotic chemistry. Don't forget IC cars were hand-cranked during this time, and magnetos for spark plugs only came into commercial availablity 4 years before this article is based. It took another decade for starter motors and auxiliary electronics to make their way into IC automobiles. Basic commericially avaliable electronics were cutting-edge back then.
      - rightbyte 7y ago
        The gasoline engine was probably equally exotic. Sulfuric acid has been manufactured since to 18th century. And you don't need permanent magnets to make a DC motor. And electrical motors were even used to power vehicles before Otto constructed his gasoline engine. I guess heat engines just were something people were more used to? Going from steam to gasoline seems like a smaller step.
  - drewcoo 7y ago
    The assertion that this is "crazy" and "alternative history" because it makes claims it never made is not even wrong.
  - Tade0 7y ago
    Out of the most popular battery chemistries only NiMH, requires rare-earths - specifically Lanthanum, which is also used as a catalyst in... oil refining.
ThomPete 7y ago
Clickbaity and completely misleading headline. The reason why the electric car didn't win was that it wasn't practical and still to this day isn't close to being as practical as using the combustion engine.
- eitland 7y ago
  > Clickbaity and completely misleading headline. Probably right. > and still to this day isn't close to being as practical as using the combustion engine. Wrong. A lot of people prefer Tesla today. Their cars are very much close to being as practical as the ones using combustion engines.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    "A lot of people" would have to be > 50% of the driving population for that to be the case.
    - nixpulvis 7y ago
      Excuse me I believe you've mistaken "a lot" with "a majority". There are clearly still trade offs, but even ignoring the environmental benefits, the cost of fuel is much less, and for many people charging in the garage meets their needs on a daily basis. The gas stations are in many ways a redundant fuel network. And electric vehicles can still be very powerful and fun.
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        No, Eitland did.
        eitland 7y ago
        How? Edit: still no good answer to what I did wrong :-/
        7y ago
nixpulvis 7y ago
While I almost definitely agree that it's a bit far fetched to imagine the batteries and bus electric engines we're truly good enough 100 years ago... I do know that crooks in the oil / transportation industries have set us back X years, where X is unacceptably large. But don't get me started, the whole suburbanization of America and the rise of cars and cheap gas are foundational to a lot of the problems we are facing today.
- ethbro 7y ago
  > the whole suburbanization of America and the rise of cars and cheap gas are foundational to a lot of the problems we are facing today On the other hand, we've generally had riots and/or public health crises whenever we've crammed too many people into cities. So from a 1950s perspective, it was a reasonable decision. Hindsight is 20/20.

39 points by XnoiVeX 7y ago

> Each battery weighed around 1.75 tons and could power a bus for just 60 kilometers. Charging took almost 8 hours But clearly it was the fact that one electric bus company was run by crooks in 1906 that held back electric cars for a century.

tomatotomato37 7y ago
I always thought it was crazy how all those alternative history folks think that the material & chemical sciences of the time that could barely rev an IC engine made out of the most industrialized material ever over 1000 rpm without knocking or throwing a rod could also handle batteries which today require rare-earth materials and exotic chemistries.
- mattmaroon 7y ago
  Yeah even today after several more decades of battery science we can just barely make an electric car economical. We still can't get one down to Camry prices.
  - _red 7y ago
    Electric cars are really fun to drive from a sports perspective, its just a shame they have such huge carbon footprints. Singapore, who has some of best pollution regulations of any modern state, has rated electric cars as "super polluter" status.
    - ethbro 7y ago
      > Singapore, who has some of best pollution regulations of any modern state, has rated electric cars as "super polluter" status. Because they measure CO2 emission at the electrical generation point. Not Tesla's fault Singapore plants are almost 100% natural gas. https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/electric-car-tesla-slapped-with-15000-tax-surcharge https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/electric-ca... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Singapore https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Singap...
      - tim333 7y ago
        Though in the future there are plans to run a cable to solar panels in Australia. (Slightly surprisingly - you'd think Malaysia was closer and sunny enough). https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/14/just-a-matter-of-when-the-20bn-plan-to-power-singapore-with-australian-solar https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/14/just-a-m...
- gsich 7y ago
  Lead batteries don't.
  - rightbyte 7y ago
    The biggest andvantage for lead batteries is probably that you don't need cell balancing which would have been really hard at that time. You just overcharge all cells and call it a day. Really nice batteries from a robustness perspective.
  - tomatotomato37 7y ago
    To a 1910 industrialist acid batteries were exotic chemistry. Don't forget IC cars were hand-cranked during this time, and magnetos for spark plugs only came into commercial availablity 4 years before this article is based. It took another decade for starter motors and auxiliary electronics to make their way into IC automobiles. Basic commericially avaliable electronics were cutting-edge back then.
    - rightbyte 7y ago
      The gasoline engine was probably equally exotic. Sulfuric acid has been manufactured since to 18th century. And you don't need permanent magnets to make a DC motor. And electrical motors were even used to power vehicles before Otto constructed his gasoline engine. I guess heat engines just were something people were more used to? Going from steam to gasoline seems like a smaller step.
- drewcoo 7y ago
  The assertion that this is "crazy" and "alternative history" because it makes claims it never made is not even wrong.
- Tade0 7y ago
  Out of the most popular battery chemistries only NiMH, requires rare-earths - specifically Lanthanum, which is also used as a catalyst in... oil refining.

ThomPete 7y ago

Clickbaity and completely misleading headline. The reason why the electric car didn't win was that it wasn't practical and still to this day isn't close to being as practical as using the combustion engine.

eitland 7y ago
> Clickbaity and completely misleading headline. Probably right. > and still to this day isn't close to being as practical as using the combustion engine. Wrong. A lot of people prefer Tesla today. Their cars are very much close to being as practical as the ones using combustion engines.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  "A lot of people" would have to be > 50% of the driving population for that to be the case.
  - nixpulvis 7y ago
    Excuse me I believe you've mistaken "a lot" with "a majority". There are clearly still trade offs, but even ignoring the environmental benefits, the cost of fuel is much less, and for many people charging in the garage meets their needs on a daily basis. The gas stations are in many ways a redundant fuel network. And electric vehicles can still be very powerful and fun.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      No, Eitland did.
      - eitland 7y ago
        How? Edit: still no good answer to what I did wrong :-/
        7y ago

nixpulvis 7y ago

While I almost definitely agree that it's a bit far fetched to imagine the batteries and bus electric engines we're truly good enough 100 years ago... I do know that crooks in the oil / transportation industries have set us back X years, where X is unacceptably large. But don't get me started, the whole suburbanization of America and the rise of cars and cheap gas are foundational to a lot of the problems we are facing today.

ethbro 7y ago
> the whole suburbanization of America and the rise of cars and cheap gas are foundational to a lot of the problems we are facing today On the other hand, we've generally had riots and/or public health crises whenever we've crammed too many people into cities. So from a 1950s perspective, it was a reasonable decision. Hindsight is 20/20.