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I don't know how people who have jewelry worth millions usually act. But honestly... it strikes me as a bit odd that you'd put objects worth many millions in a

by hannob 7y ago

I don't know how people who have jewelry worth millions usually act. But honestly... it strikes me as a bit odd that you'd put objects worth many millions in a box that costs a $246 fee per year and then expect high safety standards.

cantrevealname 7y ago
What would you do if you had jewelry worth millions? At first blush, a safe deposit box seems utterly logical. Even after reading the article, I can't think of any alternative other than avoiding Wells Fargo.
- perlgeek 7y ago
  Buy a safe in your own house, and then get insurance? Or rent a safe box and get separate insurance?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - behringer 7y ago
    Insurance can't replace family heirlooms or unique works of art. Where do you keep this stuff safe?
    - acollins1331 7y ago
      If you have millions of dollars you store it in your house and spend the money to fireproof and thiefproof it.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      Safety is a relative measure. Especially if your objective is to enjoy an article rather than stick it in a hopefully secure box somewhere.
      - behringer 7y ago
        Well that's great but it doesn't answer the question. Let's say it's something you don't need to enjoy except when you want to pull it out of storage.
        ghaff 7y ago
        Well, you either store it securely or have someone else do it for you. With the caveat that no amount of security systems and safes are going to be 100% effective against all manner of theft, accident, and natural disaster. In addition to having insurance, you just have to evaluate the options and make your trade offs.
    - kd5bjo 7y ago
      > Where do you keep this stuff safe? On display in your home or a museum. A painting that can’t be seen is just a stained piece of canvas.
      - NikolaeVarius 7y ago
        That may be worth a lot of money due to perceived value being the thing that gives it worth, versus aesthetics or whatever you get out of looking at a painting.
- fencepost 7y ago
  I would not be surprised if some jewelers offered secure storage of this sort as a service once you hit a certain level. There may also be a significant difference in the services offered in "consumer" banking and "private banking for high net worth individuals."
close04 7y ago
They're not putting millions in a $246 box, they're putting millions in a bank. The same way you might put all your savings in a bank account that not only costs you nothing, the bank actually pays you for it (via interest). So if tomorrow your life savings disappear would the "what did you expect from a service you were paid to receive?" question seem reasonable? Lobby and interest groups are strong enough that laws that actually look after the customer rather than the corporation are few and far between.
- tialaramex 7y ago
  The money is different because you're actually lending it to the bank. The government guarantees you'll get it back (up to some limit) in most countries, but that's why they can afford to operate this business. You are not loaning the valuables in a safe deposit box to the bank, they're just storing them, which is why it costs money. Maybe it should cost more money.
- hannob 7y ago
  I don't own millions, but I guess if I did then no matter if I'd put money worth millions on the bank or jewelry worth millions I'd have someone with a legal degree reading the ToS for me to tell me if it's an appropriate offer for that amount of money.
  - close04 7y ago
    Yes and no... The only valid answer anyone with a law degree and experience could ever give you when dealing with a bank is "you're on your own with anything that could conceivably happen even if it's not in the document you sign". Otherwise you will never assume the conditions can change without prior notice (none that they can prove anyway, signature on receipt is too cumbersome for the bank it seems), that the risk you're taking comes from the bank, that the bank can drill the safe and take everything inside, or that the bank can take your stuff "by mistake", no notice, and get to keep it. It's common sense. The courts disagree. They see all this as perfectly legal because it is. That's what lobbies buy you. > Banks typically argue - and courts have in many cases agreed - that customers are bound by the bank’s most-current terms, even if they leased their box years or even decades earlier. > And the scant protections offered by state laws are often simply ignored If you want to see how ridiculous it sounds when applied to another industry with slightly shallower pockets imagine this: after paying all your premiums for insurance the insurance company changes the conditions to say "covers 0% of the damage" then steals your car and keeps it.

by hannob 7y ago

cantrevealname 7y ago

What would you do if you had jewelry worth millions? At first blush, a safe deposit box seems utterly logical. Even after reading the article, I can't think of any alternative other than avoiding Wells Fargo.

perlgeek 7y ago
Buy a safe in your own house, and then get insurance? Or rent a safe box and get separate insurance?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- behringer 7y ago
  Insurance can't replace family heirlooms or unique works of art. Where do you keep this stuff safe?
  - acollins1331 7y ago
    If you have millions of dollars you store it in your house and spend the money to fireproof and thiefproof it.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    Safety is a relative measure. Especially if your objective is to enjoy an article rather than stick it in a hopefully secure box somewhere.
    - behringer 7y ago
      Well that's great but it doesn't answer the question. Let's say it's something you don't need to enjoy except when you want to pull it out of storage.
      - ghaff 7y ago
        Well, you either store it securely or have someone else do it for you. With the caveat that no amount of security systems and safes are going to be 100% effective against all manner of theft, accident, and natural disaster. In addition to having insurance, you just have to evaluate the options and make your trade offs.
  - kd5bjo 7y ago
    > Where do you keep this stuff safe? On display in your home or a museum. A painting that can’t be seen is just a stained piece of canvas.
    - NikolaeVarius 7y ago
      That may be worth a lot of money due to perceived value being the thing that gives it worth, versus aesthetics or whatever you get out of looking at a painting.
fencepost 7y ago
I would not be surprised if some jewelers offered secure storage of this sort as a service once you hit a certain level. There may also be a significant difference in the services offered in "consumer" banking and "private banking for high net worth individuals."

close04 7y ago

They're not putting millions in a $246 box, they're putting millions in a bank. The same way you might put all your savings in a bank account that not only costs you nothing, the bank actually pays you for it (via interest). So if tomorrow your life savings disappear would the "what did you expect from a service you were paid to receive?" question seem reasonable? Lobby and interest groups are strong enough that laws that actually look after the customer rather than the corporation are few and far between.

tialaramex 7y ago
The money is different because you're actually lending it to the bank. The government guarantees you'll get it back (up to some limit) in most countries, but that's why they can afford to operate this business. You are not loaning the valuables in a safe deposit box to the bank, they're just storing them, which is why it costs money. Maybe it should cost more money.
hannob 7y ago
I don't own millions, but I guess if I did then no matter if I'd put money worth millions on the bank or jewelry worth millions I'd have someone with a legal degree reading the ToS for me to tell me if it's an appropriate offer for that amount of money.
- close04 7y ago
  Yes and no... The only valid answer anyone with a law degree and experience could ever give you when dealing with a bank is "you're on your own with anything that could conceivably happen even if it's not in the document you sign". Otherwise you will never assume the conditions can change without prior notice (none that they can prove anyway, signature on receipt is too cumbersome for the bank it seems), that the risk you're taking comes from the bank, that the bank can drill the safe and take everything inside, or that the bank can take your stuff "by mistake", no notice, and get to keep it. It's common sense. The courts disagree. They see all this as perfectly legal because it is. That's what lobbies buy you. > Banks typically argue - and courts have in many cases agreed - that customers are bound by the bank’s most-current terms, even if they leased their box years or even decades earlier. > And the scant protections offered by state laws are often simply ignored If you want to see how ridiculous it sounds when applied to another industry with slightly shallower pockets imagine this: after paying all your premiums for insurance the insurance company changes the conditions to say "covers 0% of the damage" then steals your car and keeps it.