7 ms·

In Norway I used to have a deposit box to safe-guard important papers, like birth certificate, "statsborgerbrevet" (confirmation of citizenship), old passport (

by zvrba 7y ago

In Norway I used to have a deposit box to safe-guard important papers, like birth certificate, "statsborgerbrevet" (confirmation of citizenship), old passport (as proof of previous citizenship), etc. Then the bank shut down the operations, they said it was decided so by the government which was worried about fortunes (and "other (unspecified) stuff") being stored, untraceable and untaxable. I also used to have a safe in my previous apartment (with less valuable papers), had a break-in and they didn't bother opening it there, they took the whole thing weighing 40-ish kg. So where am I supposed to store such kind of valuables now? F*ing stupid government.

distances 7y ago
> birth certificate, "statsborgerbrevet" (confirmation of citizenship), old passport (as proof of previous citizenship), etc. Aren't these kinds of documents just representations of the fact in Norway? That is, the document itself isn't important and you can just request a new one when needed?
- tialaramex 7y ago
  Yes, but, that depends on trusting your government. Check out the UK's Windrush scandal for example (named for the Empire Windrush, a boat that brought the first of thousands of Carribean immigrants to Britain in the late 1940s). A government department destroyed the records of who it invited to come here, and then a subsequent government insisted that if people didn't have proof it had no way to be sure they weren't illegal immigrants and so they should be deported under what it called the "Hostile environment policy"! In some cases there are old people, grand parents and great-grandparents, worked in the UK all their lives and then declared "illegal" and sent "home" to a country they'd left as kids because the government deliberately destroyed its own records. Outrageous.
  - distances 7y ago
    Well. This is a very good reason indeed. I haven't had a reason to mistrust my government yet, but who knows what'll happen in the future. Anyway, I wouldn't even know what documents to store as I simply don't have too many of them -- even birth certificates aren't a thing here.
- zvrba 7y ago
  Now that I have Norwegian passport, I'm indeed in the police database; when I applied for a new passport I only had to deliver the old one. But with important stuff like this, I don't fully trust IT systems. Extreme solar flare, sabotage, security breach, … there's a number of (unlikely, but possible) reasons why IT records might fail. In a fireproof safe, paper is still the best archival method. And then, administrative f*ups are not without precedent as exemplified here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Erased https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Erased IIRC the cover letter I got with "statsborgerbrevet", it is non-reissuable. It is handed out only to you in person, you can't even send your lawyer. In the unlikely case I'd need a new birth certificate, I'd, I'd have to travel to my country of birth. Hassle. Call me old-fashioned, but paper is still the best archival/backup medium for stuff of real importance.
bobowzki 7y ago
Safes need to be bolted to the floor/wall as you discovered.
- zvrba 7y ago
  Yes, the safe was provisioned for bolting and came with parts... Due to its weight I truly believed nobody would bother with carrying a box of 40kg with unknown contents. On the other hand, people assume that safes contain valuables (jewelry, cash, etc.) so it's understandable. I had a small satisfaction of knowing that the contents of the safe, if they managed to open it, was utterly useless to them. Lesson learned.
- xur17 7y ago
  That's hard to do in an apartment sadly.
0xDEFC0DE 7y ago
>So where am I supposed to store such kind of valuables now? If all the banks are dropping this service, there's probably other companies that will start doing it. Could you drive to Sweden and store them there if you don't need them that often?
- eitland 7y ago
  > Could you drive to Sweden and store them there if you don't need them that often? Someone mention Sweden isn't much better: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20546346 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20546346
- zvrba 7y ago
  Ironically, there are companies offering long-term storage cubicles. I wonder how that's different from bank deposit boxes from the government's POV.
tzs 7y ago
> I also used to have a safe in my previous apartment (with less valuable papers), had a break-in and they didn't bother opening it there, they took the whole thing weighing 40-ish kg Do you think they would have taken it had they known what was in it? I have some papers, and some data discs, that would be of no use to a burglar but that I would rather not lose. I keep them in a small safe (14 kg, 10 liter). I keep it out in the open and unlocked. The hope is that if it draws a burglar's attention, they will see that the contents are useless and either ignore it, or if they decide they like the safe itself dump the content and just take the safe. If it were locked they might imagine all kinds of valuable, untraceable things I could be keeping. So why even have a safe if I don't lock it? Because it is rated to keep papers and CD/DVD discs safe for one hour in a 1700℉ (930℃) fire.
- zvrba 7y ago
  > Do you think they would have taken it had they known what was in it? No, they wouldn't. Like in your case, it contained some grade transcripts, PhD diploma (of sentimental value; no the university doesn't reissue them), and a valid passport from my previous country (which I revoked immediately... and PI in that passport had no relation to my PI in Norway.) and a backup disk with uncritical stuff. > So why even have a safe if I don't lock it? Because it is rated to keep papers and CD/DVD discs safe for one hour in a 1700℉ (930℃) fire. Again, fire-resistance was my motivation as well. But the door was sitting loose (i.e., it sat fast only when locked) and I was in doubt of how much fire protection it would offer if left unlocked.

by zvrba 7y ago

distances 7y ago

> birth certificate, "statsborgerbrevet" (confirmation of citizenship), old passport (as proof of previous citizenship), etc. Aren't these kinds of documents just representations of the fact in Norway? That is, the document itself isn't important and you can just request a new one when needed?

tialaramex 7y ago
Yes, but, that depends on trusting your government. Check out the UK's Windrush scandal for example (named for the Empire Windrush, a boat that brought the first of thousands of Carribean immigrants to Britain in the late 1940s). A government department destroyed the records of who it invited to come here, and then a subsequent government insisted that if people didn't have proof it had no way to be sure they weren't illegal immigrants and so they should be deported under what it called the "Hostile environment policy"! In some cases there are old people, grand parents and great-grandparents, worked in the UK all their lives and then declared "illegal" and sent "home" to a country they'd left as kids because the government deliberately destroyed its own records. Outrageous.
- distances 7y ago
  Well. This is a very good reason indeed. I haven't had a reason to mistrust my government yet, but who knows what'll happen in the future. Anyway, I wouldn't even know what documents to store as I simply don't have too many of them -- even birth certificates aren't a thing here.
zvrba 7y ago
Now that I have Norwegian passport, I'm indeed in the police database; when I applied for a new passport I only had to deliver the old one. But with important stuff like this, I don't fully trust IT systems. Extreme solar flare, sabotage, security breach, … there's a number of (unlikely, but possible) reasons why IT records might fail. In a fireproof safe, paper is still the best archival method. And then, administrative f*ups are not without precedent as exemplified here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Erased https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Erased IIRC the cover letter I got with "statsborgerbrevet", it is non-reissuable. It is handed out only to you in person, you can't even send your lawyer. In the unlikely case I'd need a new birth certificate, I'd, I'd have to travel to my country of birth. Hassle. Call me old-fashioned, but paper is still the best archival/backup medium for stuff of real importance.

bobowzki 7y ago

Safes need to be bolted to the floor/wall as you discovered.

zvrba 7y ago
Yes, the safe was provisioned for bolting and came with parts... Due to its weight I truly believed nobody would bother with carrying a box of 40kg with unknown contents. On the other hand, people assume that safes contain valuables (jewelry, cash, etc.) so it's understandable. I had a small satisfaction of knowing that the contents of the safe, if they managed to open it, was utterly useless to them. Lesson learned.
xur17 7y ago
That's hard to do in an apartment sadly.

0xDEFC0DE 7y ago

>So where am I supposed to store such kind of valuables now? If all the banks are dropping this service, there's probably other companies that will start doing it. Could you drive to Sweden and store them there if you don't need them that often?

eitland 7y ago
> Could you drive to Sweden and store them there if you don't need them that often? Someone mention Sweden isn't much better: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20546346 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20546346
zvrba 7y ago
Ironically, there are companies offering long-term storage cubicles. I wonder how that's different from bank deposit boxes from the government's POV.

tzs 7y ago

> I also used to have a safe in my previous apartment (with less valuable papers), had a break-in and they didn't bother opening it there, they took the whole thing weighing 40-ish kg Do you think they would have taken it had they known what was in it? I have some papers, and some data discs, that would be of no use to a burglar but that I would rather not lose. I keep them in a small safe (14 kg, 10 liter). I keep it out in the open and unlocked. The hope is that if it draws a burglar's attention, they will see that the contents are useless and either ignore it, or if they decide they like the safe itself dump the content and just take the safe. If it were locked they might imagine all kinds of valuable, untraceable things I could be keeping. So why even have a safe if I don't lock it? Because it is rated to keep papers and CD/DVD discs safe for one hour in a 1700℉ (930℃) fire.

zvrba 7y ago
> Do you think they would have taken it had they known what was in it? No, they wouldn't. Like in your case, it contained some grade transcripts, PhD diploma (of sentimental value; no the university doesn't reissue them), and a valid passport from my previous country (which I revoked immediately... and PI in that passport had no relation to my PI in Norway.) and a backup disk with uncritical stuff. > So why even have a safe if I don't lock it? Because it is rated to keep papers and CD/DVD discs safe for one hour in a 1700℉ (930℃) fire. Again, fire-resistance was my motivation as well. But the door was sitting loose (i.e., it sat fast only when locked) and I was in doubt of how much fire protection it would offer if left unlocked.