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This implies bankers are good at banking - the same bankers who famously opened millions of ghost accounts for customers [0][1], laundered money [2], or let rog

by dluan 7y ago

This implies bankers are good at banking - the same bankers who famously opened millions of ghost accounts for customers [0][1], laundered money [2], or let rogue traders exploit moral hazard [3]. Public banks would institute things like transparent charters that would be voted on by the citizens of the cities and communities - to decide what kinds of investments would be allowed and not. So you could divest say your teachers pension fund out of vehicles that fund ICE detention centers. [0] https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2016-09-09/wells-fargo-opened-a-couple-million-fake-accounts https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2016-09-09/wells-... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_Fargo_account_fraud_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_Fargo_account_fraud_scan... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-usbancorp/u-s-bancorp-to-pay-613-million-for-money-laundering-violations-idUSKCN1FZ1YJ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-usbancorp/u-s-bancorp... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_UBS_rogue_trader_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_UBS_rogue_trader_scandal

lotsofpulp 7y ago
>that would be voted on by the citizens of the cities and communities - to decide what kinds of investments would be allowed and not That is a very rosy assumption given the track record of voters, especially in the US.
- dluan 7y ago
  It’s better than the alternative which is no democratic oversight of how Wells Fargo or Goldman Sachs uses or invests teachers pension funds. It was just power we accidentally gave away without realizing we could take it back.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    It would be far easier to just implement IRAs and let people vote by deciding themselves where to invest.
    - fennecfoxen 7y ago
      Don't be absurd. We can't let people own their own retirement savings. We need to entrust that money to CALPERS, so that they can use our retirees' savings as a political cudgel, divesting from certain companies for ideological reasons, and buying board seats on others to exert their influence. The political machine doesn't just feed itself. It takes other peoples' money and abuse of the public trust to make the magic happen. (Worry not. If there's any shortfall from investing money politically, California taxpayers will make up for it.)
      - guelo 7y ago
        As if giving the money to Wall Street to manage doesn't give them immense political power.
        lotsofpulp 7y ago
        Total stock market index funds are about as good as it gets right now, given the capacities of most people and their lack of interest in investing.
  - navigatesol 7y ago
    >no democratic oversight of how Wells Fargo or Goldman Sachs uses or invests teachers pension funds. Why should anyone have a say in where the money is invested except the pension fund itself? And why isn't it the teacher's pension fund's responsibility? They can't even put their money in a bank that aligns with their investment philosophy, but you want them to run the money themselves??
navigatesol 7y ago
>the same bankers who famously opened millions of ghost accounts for customers [0][1], laundered money [2], or let rogue traders exploit moral hazard [3]. A handful of examples doesn't negate centuries of of financial history. And I love how you state "allowed traders to exploit..." as if this has anything to do with banking ability. Is there an industry on the planet that doesn't have such examples? Perhaps we should run our own mines, develop our own social networks and produce our own cars locally, too? There are scandals everywhere you look. >to decide what kinds of investments would be allowed and not. Oh that would be brilliant. Most people don't even understand elementary finance. Even on this board, you can paste data from the financial reports and have it downvoted.

by dluan 7y ago

lotsofpulp 7y ago

>that would be voted on by the citizens of the cities and communities - to decide what kinds of investments would be allowed and not That is a very rosy assumption given the track record of voters, especially in the US.

dluan 7y ago
It’s better than the alternative which is no democratic oversight of how Wells Fargo or Goldman Sachs uses or invests teachers pension funds. It was just power we accidentally gave away without realizing we could take it back.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  It would be far easier to just implement IRAs and let people vote by deciding themselves where to invest.
  - fennecfoxen 7y ago
    Don't be absurd. We can't let people own their own retirement savings. We need to entrust that money to CALPERS, so that they can use our retirees' savings as a political cudgel, divesting from certain companies for ideological reasons, and buying board seats on others to exert their influence. The political machine doesn't just feed itself. It takes other peoples' money and abuse of the public trust to make the magic happen. (Worry not. If there's any shortfall from investing money politically, California taxpayers will make up for it.)
    - guelo 7y ago
      As if giving the money to Wall Street to manage doesn't give them immense political power.
      - lotsofpulp 7y ago
        Total stock market index funds are about as good as it gets right now, given the capacities of most people and their lack of interest in investing.
- navigatesol 7y ago
  >no democratic oversight of how Wells Fargo or Goldman Sachs uses or invests teachers pension funds. Why should anyone have a say in where the money is invested except the pension fund itself? And why isn't it the teacher's pension fund's responsibility? They can't even put their money in a bank that aligns with their investment philosophy, but you want them to run the money themselves??

navigatesol 7y ago

>the same bankers who famously opened millions of ghost accounts for customers [0][1], laundered money [2], or let rogue traders exploit moral hazard [3]. A handful of examples doesn't negate centuries of of financial history. And I love how you state "allowed traders to exploit..." as if this has anything to do with banking ability. Is there an industry on the planet that doesn't have such examples? Perhaps we should run our own mines, develop our own social networks and produce our own cars locally, too? There are scandals everywhere you look. >to decide what kinds of investments would be allowed and not. Oh that would be brilliant. Most people don't even understand elementary finance. Even on this board, you can paste data from the financial reports and have it downvoted.