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I know kids will be just guilt-tripped admitting menial stuff like "you looked at how your teacher peck-typed her password and changing her wallpaper", "you fou

I know kids will be just guilt-tripped admitting menial stuff like "you looked at how your teacher peck-typed her password and changing her wallpaper", "you found out that the school Administrator account has the password `admin`" or "you downloaded a movie", I've seen such nasty manipulation happen. A lot of adults are really petty when their incompetence is revealed, due to that they probably have no proof and this "Please confess for less punishment" lie is their only way in actually messing up kid's lives. This only feels like a weak attempt at making gullible young people make a mistake (from their perspective) by admitting they've done something illegal (from the accuser's perspective). Especially given there's no legal protection and there's condescension and prejudiced when whitehat ways are picked, that should be fixed first. I hope this endeavor fails because it's just nasty.

yorwba 7y ago
> this "Please confess for less punishment" lie is their only way in actually messing up kid's lives. There's no indication that the intervention is predicated on confessing. I think you might be looking at this from the perspective of a legal system where plea bargains are a thing. In most of Europe, promising less punishment for a confession doesn't work, because the prosecutor doesn't have the right to interfere with the judge's decision, and therefore can't credibly promise that the punishment will be less. E.g. the Dutch article I linked in another comment mentions the following case: The police expected to roll up a large criminal organization, but eventually ended up in a boys' room somewhere in the Netherlands. “We noticed from cyber crime officers that they often saw things like this, in which the young people did not realize how serious the fact is that they were committing. The officers did not know which intervention would be best for them. After all, the perpetrators have done something very serious, but they are still young and often deviate from the traditional perpetrators, "explains Van Dijk. Dows that sound like petty adults using nasty manipulation to mess up kid's lives?
- Avamander 7y ago
  > There's no indication that the intervention is predicated on confessing. The article basically says that an admission of guilt is required. Otherwise the person would stay a suspect not a participant of the program. > the perpetrators have done something very serious And what is "the perpetrators have done something very serious"? By law piracy is very serious, changing a wallpaper can be very serious (there's a nice US case about that, but that's not incredibly relevant). > Dows that sound like petty adults using nasty manipulation to mess up kid's lives? It isn't maybe written like that, but it's going to be like that. Especially given the concerns I raised in the original comment, for example the issue of laws criminalizing menial things.
  - yorwba 7y ago
    > The article basically says that an admission of guilt is required. So it does. I'm not sure where they're getting that, maybe from the requirement to apologize to one's victims that's part of https://www.halt.nl/en/halt-programme/ https://www.halt.nl/en/halt-programme/ ? > And what is "the perpetrators have done something very serious"? In the case they mention, it was infiltrating an ISP's network: Jansen gives an example of a boy who hacked a large internet service provider. To watch free videos, he tried out how far he could penetrate the system. Due to an update error, he had access to the company's routers. As a result, he was able to lay down eighty percent of all internet and telephone traffic in the Netherlands. He chose not to do anything with this information, but boasted about his findings online.
    - Avamander 7y ago
      One case is infiltrating an ISP's network, that's really rare. DDoSing your own school or messing with that infrastructure is way more common, that probably is serious enough for administration but in reality absolutely not worth putting someone in front of a judge for or threaten them with a prison sentence (the Dutch article mentions it's not out of question) but now there's a nice excuse to hand it over to the police to deal with. And I must bring up how whitehat behaviour is basically illegal as well, imagine getting a criminal record for that as a kid :/
    - milankragujevic 7y ago
      For what it's worth, I obtained a way to bypass any rate limiting and quota/Fair Use systems, and basically have unlimited Internet speed and no data cap on any SIM card of one carrier. I reported the finding to them, after many escalations they in the end gave me an expensive phone as a gift and fixed the issue. It was in Serbia, so I'm not sure how relevant that is to the EU.
  - aussieguy1234 7y ago
    "In order to qualify for the program, suspects must confess to their actions, not have a remarkable criminal history and be prepared to change their behavior."
  - 7y ago

yorwba 7y ago

> this "Please confess for less punishment" lie is their only way in actually messing up kid's lives. There's no indication that the intervention is predicated on confessing. I think you might be looking at this from the perspective of a legal system where plea bargains are a thing. In most of Europe, promising less punishment for a confession doesn't work, because the prosecutor doesn't have the right to interfere with the judge's decision, and therefore can't credibly promise that the punishment will be less. E.g. the Dutch article I linked in another comment mentions the following case: The police expected to roll up a large criminal organization, but eventually ended up in a boys' room somewhere in the Netherlands. “We noticed from cyber crime officers that they often saw things like this, in which the young people did not realize how serious the fact is that they were committing. The officers did not know which intervention would be best for them. After all, the perpetrators have done something very serious, but they are still young and often deviate from the traditional perpetrators, "explains Van Dijk. Dows that sound like petty adults using nasty manipulation to mess up kid's lives?

Avamander 7y ago
> There's no indication that the intervention is predicated on confessing. The article basically says that an admission of guilt is required. Otherwise the person would stay a suspect not a participant of the program. > the perpetrators have done something very serious And what is "the perpetrators have done something very serious"? By law piracy is very serious, changing a wallpaper can be very serious (there's a nice US case about that, but that's not incredibly relevant). > Dows that sound like petty adults using nasty manipulation to mess up kid's lives? It isn't maybe written like that, but it's going to be like that. Especially given the concerns I raised in the original comment, for example the issue of laws criminalizing menial things.
- yorwba 7y ago
  > The article basically says that an admission of guilt is required. So it does. I'm not sure where they're getting that, maybe from the requirement to apologize to one's victims that's part of https://www.halt.nl/en/halt-programme/ https://www.halt.nl/en/halt-programme/ ? > And what is "the perpetrators have done something very serious"? In the case they mention, it was infiltrating an ISP's network: Jansen gives an example of a boy who hacked a large internet service provider. To watch free videos, he tried out how far he could penetrate the system. Due to an update error, he had access to the company's routers. As a result, he was able to lay down eighty percent of all internet and telephone traffic in the Netherlands. He chose not to do anything with this information, but boasted about his findings online.
  - Avamander 7y ago
    One case is infiltrating an ISP's network, that's really rare. DDoSing your own school or messing with that infrastructure is way more common, that probably is serious enough for administration but in reality absolutely not worth putting someone in front of a judge for or threaten them with a prison sentence (the Dutch article mentions it's not out of question) but now there's a nice excuse to hand it over to the police to deal with. And I must bring up how whitehat behaviour is basically illegal as well, imagine getting a criminal record for that as a kid :/
  - milankragujevic 7y ago
    For what it's worth, I obtained a way to bypass any rate limiting and quota/Fair Use systems, and basically have unlimited Internet speed and no data cap on any SIM card of one carrier. I reported the finding to them, after many escalations they in the end gave me an expensive phone as a gift and fixed the issue. It was in Serbia, so I'm not sure how relevant that is to the EU.
- aussieguy1234 7y ago
  "In order to qualify for the program, suspects must confess to their actions, not have a remarkable criminal history and be prepared to change their behavior."
- 7y ago