4 ms·

I love the US constitution as much as the next guy, but isn't it a bit of a stretch to apply this section to a non-citizen not even located in the States?

by berbec 7y ago

Brian_K_White 7y ago
It does say "no person". But "due process" can mean anything.
- berbec 7y ago
  Would you contend the US constitution applies to someone living in Finland, who is a citizen of Greece born in Norway?
  - peter_d_sherman 7y ago
    I would submit that someone living in Finland, who is a citizen of Greece, born in Norway, is not contractually obligated by the U.S. Constitution, unless they accept it in some way or other, and if so, that acceptance may be in conflict with other contracts (such as other citizenships) that they may have accepted prior. So no, probably not. On the other hand, I would presume that anyone who works for the U.S. Government has accepted the U.S. Constitution, either explicitly (by Oath) and/or implicitly (by the act of working for the U.S. Government). Why is this important? Well, see, if those people are in charge of creating/enforcing sanctions, they are also contractually obligated to do so while NOT BREAKING THEIR CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION TO UPHOLD EACH AND EVERY ASPECT OF THE CONSTITUTION. One of the things that The Constitution says (above) is that people (all people by the way, not just some of a specific nationality, and not just those that have accepted the Constitution) are NOT to be deprived of their property without Due Process (which includes but is not limited to a Trial By a Jury of one's peers). So... you do the math.
- peter_d_sherman 7y ago
  "Due Process" takes on its own meaning to someone who has deeply studied Law. Without being a Lawyer, one could not easily define it. To understand this by analogy, the word "Computer" might mean something with a screen, mouse and keyboard to some people, but it have a much deeper meaning to a Computer Engineer, Operating System Developer, Compiler Writer, or Applied Mathematician. That's because the concept of "Computer" is intricately, intricately weaved around all sorts of interrelated technical concepts, and the result is something of sheer engineering beauty... "Due Process" similarly, is intricately, intricately interweaved with many other concepts in Law. That's the "Due Process" that the Founding Fathers are talking about (they having had extensive backgrounds in Law). To someone who hasn't studied Law, it would appear as two shallow words, but I assure you -- study Law and you will find these words have many more dimensions than their mere dictionary definitions...

I love the US constitution as much as the next guy, but isn't it a bit of a stretch to apply this section to a non-citizen not even located in the States?

by berbec 7y ago

I love the US constitution as much as the next guy, but isn't it a bit of a stretch to apply this section to a non-citizen not even located in the States?

Brian_K_White 7y ago

It does say "no person". But "due process" can mean anything.

berbec 7y ago
Would you contend the US constitution applies to someone living in Finland, who is a citizen of Greece born in Norway?
- peter_d_sherman 7y ago
  I would submit that someone living in Finland, who is a citizen of Greece, born in Norway, is not contractually obligated by the U.S. Constitution, unless they accept it in some way or other, and if so, that acceptance may be in conflict with other contracts (such as other citizenships) that they may have accepted prior. So no, probably not. On the other hand, I would presume that anyone who works for the U.S. Government has accepted the U.S. Constitution, either explicitly (by Oath) and/or implicitly (by the act of working for the U.S. Government). Why is this important? Well, see, if those people are in charge of creating/enforcing sanctions, they are also contractually obligated to do so while NOT BREAKING THEIR CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION TO UPHOLD EACH AND EVERY ASPECT OF THE CONSTITUTION. One of the things that The Constitution says (above) is that people (all people by the way, not just some of a specific nationality, and not just those that have accepted the Constitution) are NOT to be deprived of their property without Due Process (which includes but is not limited to a Trial By a Jury of one's peers). So... you do the math.
peter_d_sherman 7y ago
"Due Process" takes on its own meaning to someone who has deeply studied Law. Without being a Lawyer, one could not easily define it. To understand this by analogy, the word "Computer" might mean something with a screen, mouse and keyboard to some people, but it have a much deeper meaning to a Computer Engineer, Operating System Developer, Compiler Writer, or Applied Mathematician. That's because the concept of "Computer" is intricately, intricately weaved around all sorts of interrelated technical concepts, and the result is something of sheer engineering beauty... "Due Process" similarly, is intricately, intricately interweaved with many other concepts in Law. That's the "Due Process" that the Founding Fathers are talking about (they having had extensive backgrounds in Law). To someone who hasn't studied Law, it would appear as two shallow words, but I assure you -- study Law and you will find these words have many more dimensions than their mere dictionary definitions...