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hmm. this view is superlimited. we understand how evolution works and why it happens but the arrogance to believe we could do better is definitely a human trait

hmm. this view is superlimited. we understand how evolution works and why it happens but the arrogance to believe we could do better is definitely a human trait.

ben_w 7y ago
It may be a human trait, but it really isn’t arrogance. Even without fully understanding the consequences, the fact we have a purpose in mind a massive improvement on evolution.
- mirceal 7y ago
  not understanding the consequences and/or performing changes at a fast pace without giving either the species or the environment time to adapt is what gets you extinct
  - ben_w 7y ago
    99.9999999999% of species go extinct because evolution didn’t and inherently couldn’t prepare them. Evolution has all the flaws you ascribe to mankind and more besides.
    - mirceal 7y ago
      evolution does not prepare you. evolution does nothing. the changes that occur in order to adapt to the environment are what we call evolution. The problem is that the environment does not change (most of the times) suddenly so the fitness function of the individuals can be verified (again most of the times) against the environment for many, many generations. Once you start throwing away validation and you also have a species that has a long lifespan (ie humans) you are throwing away the validation safety net. Sometimes 10 years will pass until you notice something is wrong. Sometimes 50. Even worse, the genes that you are experimenting with will live in the wild and will also get to reproduce/mutate freely. New diseases? Zombies? Superhumans? who knows? My point is that we are not knowledgeable and qualified to play God yet. We will definitely do it and we will invariably fuck it up. That does not mean we should actually attempt to do it.
      - ben_w 7y ago
        What you call “validation” ceases to occur after reproduction. My mother and my grandmother on her side both developed Alzheimer’s, which is 100% because evolution hasn’t got a plan and doesn’t care because it’s incapable of planning or caring. My point is that evolution is not qualified to play god, unless by “god” you mean Azathoth.
        mirceal 7y ago
        "Validation" == you reach reproduction age and you actually live long enough after that to see your offsprings reach reproduction age. Evolution is not qualified is the traditional sense, because its goal is not to play god. It's qualified in the sense that this is a side effect of evolution. Once you throw away the safety of this "validation" and it takes a long time to actually understand what the effects are you will see in some cases the disastrous results of what you're doing

hmm. this view is superlimited. we understand how evolution works and why it happens but the arrogance to believe we could do better is definitely a human trait.

ben_w 7y ago

It may be a human trait, but it really isn’t arrogance. Even without fully understanding the consequences, the fact we have a purpose in mind a massive improvement on evolution.

mirceal 7y ago
not understanding the consequences and/or performing changes at a fast pace without giving either the species or the environment time to adapt is what gets you extinct
- ben_w 7y ago
  99.9999999999% of species go extinct because evolution didn’t and inherently couldn’t prepare them. Evolution has all the flaws you ascribe to mankind and more besides.
  - mirceal 7y ago
    evolution does not prepare you. evolution does nothing. the changes that occur in order to adapt to the environment are what we call evolution. The problem is that the environment does not change (most of the times) suddenly so the fitness function of the individuals can be verified (again most of the times) against the environment for many, many generations. Once you start throwing away validation and you also have a species that has a long lifespan (ie humans) you are throwing away the validation safety net. Sometimes 10 years will pass until you notice something is wrong. Sometimes 50. Even worse, the genes that you are experimenting with will live in the wild and will also get to reproduce/mutate freely. New diseases? Zombies? Superhumans? who knows? My point is that we are not knowledgeable and qualified to play God yet. We will definitely do it and we will invariably fuck it up. That does not mean we should actually attempt to do it.
    - ben_w 7y ago
      What you call “validation” ceases to occur after reproduction. My mother and my grandmother on her side both developed Alzheimer’s, which is 100% because evolution hasn’t got a plan and doesn’t care because it’s incapable of planning or caring. My point is that evolution is not qualified to play god, unless by “god” you mean Azathoth.
      - mirceal 7y ago
        "Validation" == you reach reproduction age and you actually live long enough after that to see your offsprings reach reproduction age. Evolution is not qualified is the traditional sense, because its goal is not to play god. It's qualified in the sense that this is a side effect of evolution. Once you throw away the safety of this "validation" and it takes a long time to actually understand what the effects are you will see in some cases the disastrous results of what you're doing