4 ms·

Container Platform Security at Cruise

55 points by based2 7y ago

georgewfraser 7y ago
It seems weird to me that a self-driving car company is doing work on core server infrastructure things like container security. Does the builtin GCP stuff really not work for them? My impression has been that it’s really well thought-out.
- zapita 7y ago
  What built-in “GCP stuff” do you mean? They seem to already be using GKE.
- PopeDotNinja 7y ago
  Widespread use of containers is still a pretty new thing. For any company where security is a top priority, it seems likely that their needs will exceed the security features offered by the container infrastructure they are using. In that context it doesn't seem weird to me.
- dilyevsky 7y ago
  We use as much of built-in gcp stuff as is reasonable but unfortunately there’s no “make things secure” button yet. Additionally not all gcp components work well with each other as soon as you start using anything beyond google io demo happy case and there’s a lot of missing features still (it’s getting there though). Source: i work on container platform at Cruise
- ownagefool 7y ago
  To be fair, the write up isn't much more that. TL;DR They use Okta for SSO, GCP for Service Accounts (automation), vault for secrets, ca and tls, GKE generally, and this is how it all works. That said, the article is good and the author has a good understanding of what's going on. Typically, you need to know how something works before you can form realistic opinion on whether or not it is secure. Too much of the industry is full of blind trust from people that can get things working but don't scratch beyond the surface of integration. The author has likely had to understand this in order to explain it to InfoSec assurance, compliance and audit departments, but I think writing it down is really useful for people without the tech. I think they could expand on why they use vault rather than the secrets engine directly, but I suspect that was because of integrations, protability, and the workload indentity functionality behing newer than their setup.
  - techslave 7y ago
    > I think writing it down is really useful for people without the tech. writing it down, sure. but publishing it is useful for SEO and recruitment purposes.
  - tbfrench 7y ago
    disclaimer: I work at Cruise >The author has likely had to understand this in order to explain it to InfoSec... Even better: Mike Ruth, one of the co-authors, is in the Security team. >I think they could expand on why they use vault rather than the secrets engine directly Watch this space...
mtgx 7y ago
Self-driving car security is going to need a lot more than just following the latest buzzword in the security community and thinking that's enough. But if the Cruise team is keen on buzzwords that they can then brag to the media about then maybe they should start using the "disconnected self-driving car" buzzword instead, and then implement about a dozen more of Brad Templeton's security recommendations for self-driving cars: https://ideas.4brad.com/disconnected-car-right-security-plan-robocars https://ideas.4brad.com/disconnected-car-right-security-plan... Then I might just start believing that GM (or any other self-driving) cars may end up with reasonable but still not bulletproof security in about a decade.
throwawayeqaf2 7y ago
Word of warning: the Cruise Security team has blackhats (probably not Karl or Mike). On multiple occasions, and with multiple witnesses, they intentionally obstructed communications regarding misconduct in order to hamper or deter related investigations.
justicezyx 7y ago
I do not buy the sentiment that self driving car company should leave infrastructure work to cloud providers. On the one hand, such work has realistic roi, for example, a little foraging into infrastructure tech, allow outsized understanding which translate to outsized benefit. I.e., to have a few guys to work out these details easily help remove common simple defects for a large organization. Additionally, staying connected with the industry is crucial. Nowadays, your value to hackers can be increased 10x overnight depending on some luck events. And the modern infrastructure is full of holes that a seasoned hacker can easily crack. It’s just a matter of discovering the right entry way. And such entry ways keep changing with the new tech.

55 points by based2 7y ago

It seems weird to me that a self-driving car company is doing work on core server infrastructure things like container security. Does the builtin GCP stuff really not work for them? My impression has been that it’s really well thought-out.

zapita 7y ago
What built-in “GCP stuff” do you mean? They seem to already be using GKE.
PopeDotNinja 7y ago
Widespread use of containers is still a pretty new thing. For any company where security is a top priority, it seems likely that their needs will exceed the security features offered by the container infrastructure they are using. In that context it doesn't seem weird to me.
dilyevsky 7y ago
We use as much of built-in gcp stuff as is reasonable but unfortunately there’s no “make things secure” button yet. Additionally not all gcp components work well with each other as soon as you start using anything beyond google io demo happy case and there’s a lot of missing features still (it’s getting there though). Source: i work on container platform at Cruise
ownagefool 7y ago
To be fair, the write up isn't much more that. TL;DR They use Okta for SSO, GCP for Service Accounts (automation), vault for secrets, ca and tls, GKE generally, and this is how it all works. That said, the article is good and the author has a good understanding of what's going on. Typically, you need to know how something works before you can form realistic opinion on whether or not it is secure. Too much of the industry is full of blind trust from people that can get things working but don't scratch beyond the surface of integration. The author has likely had to understand this in order to explain it to InfoSec assurance, compliance and audit departments, but I think writing it down is really useful for people without the tech. I think they could expand on why they use vault rather than the secrets engine directly, but I suspect that was because of integrations, protability, and the workload indentity functionality behing newer than their setup.
- techslave 7y ago
  > I think writing it down is really useful for people without the tech. writing it down, sure. but publishing it is useful for SEO and recruitment purposes.
- tbfrench 7y ago
  disclaimer: I work at Cruise >The author has likely had to understand this in order to explain it to InfoSec... Even better: Mike Ruth, one of the co-authors, is in the Security team. >I think they could expand on why they use vault rather than the secrets engine directly Watch this space...

mtgx 7y ago

Self-driving car security is going to need a lot more than just following the latest buzzword in the security community and thinking that's enough. But if the Cruise team is keen on buzzwords that they can then brag to the media about then maybe they should start using the "disconnected self-driving car" buzzword instead, and then implement about a dozen more of Brad Templeton's security recommendations for self-driving cars: https://ideas.4brad.com/disconnected-car-right-security-plan-robocars https://ideas.4brad.com/disconnected-car-right-security-plan... Then I might just start believing that GM (or any other self-driving) cars may end up with reasonable but still not bulletproof security in about a decade.

throwawayeqaf2 7y ago

Word of warning: the Cruise Security team has blackhats (probably not Karl or Mike). On multiple occasions, and with multiple witnesses, they intentionally obstructed communications regarding misconduct in order to hamper or deter related investigations.

justicezyx 7y ago

I do not buy the sentiment that self driving car company should leave infrastructure work to cloud providers. On the one hand, such work has realistic roi, for example, a little foraging into infrastructure tech, allow outsized understanding which translate to outsized benefit. I.e., to have a few guys to work out these details easily help remove common simple defects for a large organization. Additionally, staying connected with the industry is crucial. Nowadays, your value to hackers can be increased 10x overnight depending on some luck events. And the modern infrastructure is full of holes that a seasoned hacker can easily crack. It’s just a matter of discovering the right entry way. And such entry ways keep changing with the new tech.