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That's a great question that I don't have a solid answer to. But one change that I think could be beneficial is at least an expedited judicial process for forei

That's a great question that I don't have a solid answer to. But one change that I think could be beneficial is at least an expedited judicial process for foreigners like Hutchins, visitors that only intended to stay in the United States for a short period of time before being arrested on suspicion of a crime. Hutchins was fortunate that he had some money and a sort of safety net in the form of donations, a network of people who knew him, etc. For most people without that type of support, I would imagine being prevented from leaving the States for an extended amount of time would be nothing less than devastating.

AmericanChopper 7y ago
You’re literally advocating for a two tiered justice system.
- SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
  As a consequence of a two-tiered citizen / resident vs not-citizen system.
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    You’re gonna have to explain what on earth you could possibly mean by that. Citizens and non-citizens have equal rights under the US justice system. Awaiting trial sucks for anybody, there’s no reason to give any class of people special entitlements.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
      Ah yes, "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. " I think that actual equality would have him awaiting trial on bail back home in the UK, not Los Angeles.
      - AmericanChopper 7y ago
        And what does that have to do with citizenship? It doesn’t really sound like you’re putting forward a coherent argument for anything at all.
        SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
        > It doesn’t really sound like you’re putting forward a coherent argument for anything at all Please check your language. Why does this wind you up so much? I refer you to this that goes into in in more detail: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20541499 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20541499 Other people get it, if you don't; you don't and can stop bothering me with aggressive questions. People on the internet don't, in general, "gonna have to explain". It's optional.
        AmericanChopper 7y ago
        You said that a two tiered justice system was a justified response to a two tiered system based on citizenship. When I asked you to explain yourself, you started talking about income inequality. I’m not being wound up, I just can’t follow anything you’re saying, because it seems you can’t stick to one topic for more than one comment at a time.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
        > When I asked you to explain yourself, you started talking about income inequality. I can't tell if you're missing the point deliberately or not. Either way, I'm not interested.
        brighter2morrow 7y ago
        He's saying "US bad for acting like a sovereign nation with rule of law"
    - Voloskaya 7y ago
      > 'Awaiting trial sucks for anybody' There is quite a stark difference between waiting in your home, with your family, while being able to continue your day to day life (if you are a resident/citizen) and not being able to go back to your life, losing your job in your home country, while not being allowed to find a job either in the US, all the while you have to pay for accommodation and food for months or a year out of thin air (in the case of most non-residents). How can you think both those situations equally suck?
      - AmericanChopper 7y ago
        Losing your job and not being able to get another one is a pretty common outcome of being on bail for serious charges. If you turn out to be guilty (like Marcus is), then it’s really no big deal. If you’re innocent, then the entire pre-trial experience is usually going to completely turn your life upside down. There is no reasonable justification for creating a two-tiered justice system where a certain class of people either have expedited trials, or completely outrageous bail conditions.
        SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
        > If you turn out to be guilty (like Marcus is), then it’s really no big deal. I put it to you that the person so affected, and sentenced to time served, would in fact find it to be a "big deal".
        AmericanChopper 7y ago
        It’s entirely appropriate for a person guilty of a crime to be punished for it.
        SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
        nevertheless, they would find it to be a "big deal".

AmericanChopper 7y ago

You’re literally advocating for a two tiered justice system.

SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
As a consequence of a two-tiered citizen / resident vs not-citizen system.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  You’re gonna have to explain what on earth you could possibly mean by that. Citizens and non-citizens have equal rights under the US justice system. Awaiting trial sucks for anybody, there’s no reason to give any class of people special entitlements.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
    Ah yes, "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. " I think that actual equality would have him awaiting trial on bail back home in the UK, not Los Angeles.
    - AmericanChopper 7y ago
      And what does that have to do with citizenship? It doesn’t really sound like you’re putting forward a coherent argument for anything at all.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
        > It doesn’t really sound like you’re putting forward a coherent argument for anything at all Please check your language. Why does this wind you up so much? I refer you to this that goes into in in more detail: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20541499 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20541499 Other people get it, if you don't; you don't and can stop bothering me with aggressive questions. People on the internet don't, in general, "gonna have to explain". It's optional.
        AmericanChopper 7y ago
        You said that a two tiered justice system was a justified response to a two tiered system based on citizenship. When I asked you to explain yourself, you started talking about income inequality. I’m not being wound up, I just can’t follow anything you’re saying, because it seems you can’t stick to one topic for more than one comment at a time.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
        > When I asked you to explain yourself, you started talking about income inequality. I can't tell if you're missing the point deliberately or not. Either way, I'm not interested.
      - brighter2morrow 7y ago
        He's saying "US bad for acting like a sovereign nation with rule of law"
  - Voloskaya 7y ago
    > 'Awaiting trial sucks for anybody' There is quite a stark difference between waiting in your home, with your family, while being able to continue your day to day life (if you are a resident/citizen) and not being able to go back to your life, losing your job in your home country, while not being allowed to find a job either in the US, all the while you have to pay for accommodation and food for months or a year out of thin air (in the case of most non-residents). How can you think both those situations equally suck?
    - AmericanChopper 7y ago
      Losing your job and not being able to get another one is a pretty common outcome of being on bail for serious charges. If you turn out to be guilty (like Marcus is), then it’s really no big deal. If you’re innocent, then the entire pre-trial experience is usually going to completely turn your life upside down. There is no reasonable justification for creating a two-tiered justice system where a certain class of people either have expedited trials, or completely outrageous bail conditions.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
        > If you turn out to be guilty (like Marcus is), then it’s really no big deal. I put it to you that the person so affected, and sentenced to time served, would in fact find it to be a "big deal".
        AmericanChopper 7y ago
        It’s entirely appropriate for a person guilty of a crime to be punished for it.
        SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
        nevertheless, they would find it to be a "big deal".