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> My thoughts on this are old school. Like 1700's old school. A person's right to vote exists with or without documentation. A piece of paper, an entry in a led
by eatbitseveryday 7y ago
> My thoughts on this are old school. Like 1700's old school.
A person's right to vote exists with or without documentation. A piece of paper, an entry in a ledger, or a row in a database has no bearing on whether that right exists, or should be exercised.
How do we ensure non-citizens aren’t voting? We accept many visitors - refugees, H1B, tourists, F1/I-20, etc. None are granted voting rights.
- baddox 7y agoIf you’re physically in a jurisdiction, you are subject to its laws. Isn’t the supposed point of democracy to give people a voice in the government that rules over them?
- deogeo 7y agoDemocracy is also an expression of self-determination of a people. Meaning they don't have to let anyone who visits their country sway their decisions.
- baddox 7y agoWho decides what “a people” is? You have a bunch of people in a geographic region, and some of those people get to decide that they are “the people” and that only they get to vote? Sounds pretty blatantly undemocratic.
- deogeo 7y ago> a bunch of people in a geographic region You make it sound as if they just happened to wind up there at random, and have nothing else in common. Geographic proximity is incidental to belonging to a group. The land they live on is merely one of their possessions. Allowing visitors does not mean they must share their sovereignty with them. To answer your question, in democracies, each person can vote to influence their own nation - their demos, even while abroad. You think demos should be decided purely on current location, but most countries disagree - they use mostly jus sanguinis, with the exception of jus soli in the Americas.
- baddox 7y agoI understand the historical reasoning for some of this stuff, but as long as the laws apply to everyone in a physical location, I think the only way to claim to be democratic is to let everyone in that physical location vote to influence those laws.
- SiempreViernes 7y agoThey clearly said that was someone else’s problem, to be handled at some later point in the processing where options for deciding the question are more limited.
- jazzyjackson 7y agoWe make it a felony. "“She can own property; she can serve in the military; she can get a job; she can pay taxes. But she can’t vote, and she didn’t know that.”" https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/10/us/illegal-voting-gets-texas-woman-8-years-in-prison-and-certain-deportation.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/10/us/illegal-voting-gets-te...
- microcolonel 7y agoIn case it was not obvious: the vote is for adult U.S. citizens; not for permanent resident aliens, not for visitors, not for illegal aliens, not for children. It is a tragedy that this was not made abundantly clear to this woman, assuming she truly believed that she was permitted to vote.
- dredmorbius 7y agoNB: Non-citizens have historically been allowed to vote in local and regional elections. Consider that there are towns in rural California with majority noncitizen residents. In cases upwards. of 90%. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/noncitizens-are-gaining-the-right-to-vote-good/2017/08/18/805b86e2-4d3e-11e7-9669-250d0b15f83b_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/noncitizens-are-gain...
- anigbrowl 7y agoDo we need to do more than we already do? Despite the baying of certain political hounds there is no evidence that this is an actual problem.