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> Negative public opinion, multiple lawsuits, and ongoing issues with all keyboards in Mac notebooks released since 2015 have led Apple to launch a keyboard rep

> Negative public opinion, multiple lawsuits, and ongoing issues with all keyboards in Mac notebooks released since 2015 have led Apple to launch a keyboard repair program that applies to all Macs with a butterfly keyboard, including 2019 models. Kind of glossing over the rather important detail that Apple's keyboard repair program entitles you to an exact replacement of the same broken-ass keyboard design that caused your issue in the first place. If I remember correctly, they won't even upgrade you to their later-generation butterfly mechanism; if you go in with a membrane-less 1st-generation keyboard, that's what you get as a replacement.

CDSlice 7y ago
I think that because the keyboard is connected to the logic board it is literally impossible for Apple to give you a newer keyboard without also giving you a logic board for a later gen pro which won't work with the later gen MacBook. That's also (part of) the reason why repairs are so expensive, most of the parts are connected into a few large chunks that have to be replaced all at once.
- randomsearch 7y ago
  Unless they redesigned the part, to fix the problem, which is what they should do.
- augstein 7y ago
  They should not have constructed it this way in the first place. For how long will they replace those keyboards for free?
  - sq_ 7y ago
    They're covered for four years after first retail sale from Apple [0]. [0] https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-n...
- dpau 7y ago
  Completely Apple's own fault, too. A rating of only 1 on iFixit's "Laptop Repairability Scores": "The top case assembly, including the keyboard, battery, speakers, and Touch Bar, is glued together—making all those components impractical to replace separately." https://www.ifixit.com/laptop-repairability https://www.ifixit.com/laptop-repairability
  - theturtletalks 7y ago
    Apple was also one of the first companies to solder in the RAM so it couldn’t be upgraded. I miss being able to make my laptop significantly faster without upgrading it completely.
    - viraptor 7y ago
      There are still companies which allow that. Support them instead.
    - HNisCurated 7y ago
      Anti consumer policies should be punished, especially if it matters to you. I could never handle this kind of abuse.
- nseggs 7y ago
  Connected to the logic board? On mine they just replaced the whole top case assembly. My understanding is that the replacement swapped out everything other than the display and the logic board, including the battery.
  - viraptor 7y ago
    Same on my model from around 2016. One key cap came off. Got back essentially a new laptop (as far as I can tell) from repair with new body - the display stayed the same. I wonder how many people will scam them this way now.
    - Phlarp 7y ago
      How is this a scam? They made a defective product that is intentionally difficult to service. If Apple is the one being most affected by their own poor design decisions their finances surely don't show it.
      - viraptor 7y ago
        I meant how many people will break one key in a trivial way to get a bigger replacement they actually would have to pay for otherwise. (because the warranty ran out)
        allana 7y ago
        Its a defective keyboard design, it will fail sooner or later. The only difference is whether Apple replaces the keyboard now or a few months down the road.
        Phlarp 7y ago
        Alternately, Apple could make a keyboard that doesn't trivially break. Then they wouldn't be under class action pressure to repair and replace them. To whatever extent it's possible for an end user to "trigger" a failure covered under the extended warranty; it's 100% Apple's fault for making it the way they did. If the keyboards could be trivially swapped (say tool less) and cheaply produced then this would be far less of an issue. It's a bad keyboard, but it's issues are made far far worse due to the lack of a serviceable design. Hopefully this experience of shooting themselves in the foot will make them reconsider repairable hardware.
- dangus 7y ago
  This is not correct, the top case replacement does not include the logic board.
kccqzy 7y ago
That's not entirely true. The third-generation butterfly keyboards will be replaced with the fourth-generation keyboards. See https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/21/18634247/macbook-butterfly-keyboard-problems-apple-repair-new-materials https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/21/18634247/macbook-butterfl...
nseggs 7y ago
Pretty sure this is not the case. I recently had mine serviced and I'm almost positive I was told by the Genius that they were swapping in the latest gen keyboard.
- el_benhameen 7y ago
  Yeah, same. And the key presses on the new one feel noticeably different, too.

CDSlice 7y ago

I think that because the keyboard is connected to the logic board it is literally impossible for Apple to give you a newer keyboard without also giving you a logic board for a later gen pro which won't work with the later gen MacBook. That's also (part of) the reason why repairs are so expensive, most of the parts are connected into a few large chunks that have to be replaced all at once.

randomsearch 7y ago
Unless they redesigned the part, to fix the problem, which is what they should do.
augstein 7y ago
They should not have constructed it this way in the first place. For how long will they replace those keyboards for free?
- sq_ 7y ago
  They're covered for four years after first retail sale from Apple [0]. [0] https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-n...
dpau 7y ago
Completely Apple's own fault, too. A rating of only 1 on iFixit's "Laptop Repairability Scores": "The top case assembly, including the keyboard, battery, speakers, and Touch Bar, is glued together—making all those components impractical to replace separately." https://www.ifixit.com/laptop-repairability https://www.ifixit.com/laptop-repairability
- theturtletalks 7y ago
  Apple was also one of the first companies to solder in the RAM so it couldn’t be upgraded. I miss being able to make my laptop significantly faster without upgrading it completely.
  - viraptor 7y ago
    There are still companies which allow that. Support them instead.
  - HNisCurated 7y ago
    Anti consumer policies should be punished, especially if it matters to you. I could never handle this kind of abuse.
nseggs 7y ago
Connected to the logic board? On mine they just replaced the whole top case assembly. My understanding is that the replacement swapped out everything other than the display and the logic board, including the battery.
- viraptor 7y ago
  Same on my model from around 2016. One key cap came off. Got back essentially a new laptop (as far as I can tell) from repair with new body - the display stayed the same. I wonder how many people will scam them this way now.
  - Phlarp 7y ago
    How is this a scam? They made a defective product that is intentionally difficult to service. If Apple is the one being most affected by their own poor design decisions their finances surely don't show it.
    - viraptor 7y ago
      I meant how many people will break one key in a trivial way to get a bigger replacement they actually would have to pay for otherwise. (because the warranty ran out)
      - allana 7y ago
        Its a defective keyboard design, it will fail sooner or later. The only difference is whether Apple replaces the keyboard now or a few months down the road.
      - Phlarp 7y ago
        Alternately, Apple could make a keyboard that doesn't trivially break. Then they wouldn't be under class action pressure to repair and replace them. To whatever extent it's possible for an end user to "trigger" a failure covered under the extended warranty; it's 100% Apple's fault for making it the way they did. If the keyboards could be trivially swapped (say tool less) and cheaply produced then this would be far less of an issue. It's a bad keyboard, but it's issues are made far far worse due to the lack of a serviceable design. Hopefully this experience of shooting themselves in the foot will make them reconsider repairable hardware.
dangus 7y ago
This is not correct, the top case replacement does not include the logic board.

kccqzy 7y ago

That's not entirely true. The third-generation butterfly keyboards will be replaced with the fourth-generation keyboards. See https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/21/18634247/macbook-butterfly-keyboard-problems-apple-repair-new-materials https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/21/18634247/macbook-butterfl...

nseggs 7y ago

Pretty sure this is not the case. I recently had mine serviced and I'm almost positive I was told by the Genius that they were swapping in the latest gen keyboard.

el_benhameen 7y ago
Yeah, same. And the key presses on the new one feel noticeably different, too.