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People believe technology will solve the day because it has every time single time so far. As we get better and better it looks like divorcing from nature is go

People believe technology will solve the day because it has every time single time so far. As we get better and better it looks like divorcing from nature is going to be the best approach. We are going to make to growing all our food in giant box farms. The simplest and most glaring issue is the Sun itself. Only a few hours a day for plants. Water is a massive issue! Huge swaths of the earth have very limited rainfall or access to fresh water. Factory farms can make efficient use of its water supply rather than watching the ground soak it up. Pesticides can be used sparingly when the whole environment is controlled. I'm willing to bet that within 30 years a very large chunk of food grown to eat directly (strawberries, avocados, oranges, etc) will be box farm grown and the transition of wheat and corn will have started.

artificialLimbs 7y ago
Are you being serious? I have no idea what you're talking about. "Only a few hours a day for plants." About half the day is decidated to sunshine, give or take. It's been this way for ... since plants. "Huge swaths of the earth..." Don't grow there. Don't live there. People don't live in volcanoes for a reason. It's too inhospitable. OTO, you could import your goods via plane/copter/whatever if you're brave. Good on you. We're already able to grow tropical fruit 1,500 feet up in the freezing Alps with no (artificial) chemicals/fertilizers/pesticides and effective (natural) water management. Can't imagine it will be much more difficult in growth friendly places. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQdCkPR6ZCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQdCkPR6ZCw
- spraak 7y ago
  Yes, Sepp Holzer! It's refreshing to see other people, especially among the HN demographic, to know of work like his and permaculture in general given the general obsession with specific myopic forms of technology (like to whom you're replying here); i.e. I still see permaculture as a kind of technology, just a different kind than what most modern conventional farms use.
spraak 7y ago
> People believe technology will solve the day because it has every time single time so far. Huh, your dataset must look very different than the one I can see.
slfnflctd 7y ago
That's a really neat idea which I'm fond of, and it would certainly help with things like exploring other planets! Sadly, I've looked into it extensively, and the costs are way too high in comparison with outdoor farming. There are a few niche scenarios where you can get it to work, but they have to be priced at the high end. Things would need to get horrifically bad with the climate before the equation would change much. Indoor farming also couldn't be done at nearly the same volume, and expanding capacity would be very slow. I'm optimistic that in the long run, we'll find sources of nourishment which can be grown quickly in compact, easily managed closed-loop environments with minimal inputs... however, after the disillusionment of trying to find progress toward this end the real world, all I can say is we need a LOT more people working on it.

artificialLimbs 7y ago

Are you being serious? I have no idea what you're talking about. "Only a few hours a day for plants." About half the day is decidated to sunshine, give or take. It's been this way for ... since plants. "Huge swaths of the earth..." Don't grow there. Don't live there. People don't live in volcanoes for a reason. It's too inhospitable. OTO, you could import your goods via plane/copter/whatever if you're brave. Good on you. We're already able to grow tropical fruit 1,500 feet up in the freezing Alps with no (artificial) chemicals/fertilizers/pesticides and effective (natural) water management. Can't imagine it will be much more difficult in growth friendly places. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQdCkPR6ZCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQdCkPR6ZCw

spraak 7y ago
Yes, Sepp Holzer! It's refreshing to see other people, especially among the HN demographic, to know of work like his and permaculture in general given the general obsession with specific myopic forms of technology (like to whom you're replying here); i.e. I still see permaculture as a kind of technology, just a different kind than what most modern conventional farms use.

spraak 7y ago

> People believe technology will solve the day because it has every time single time so far. Huh, your dataset must look very different than the one I can see.

slfnflctd 7y ago

That's a really neat idea which I'm fond of, and it would certainly help with things like exploring other planets! Sadly, I've looked into it extensively, and the costs are way too high in comparison with outdoor farming. There are a few niche scenarios where you can get it to work, but they have to be priced at the high end. Things would need to get horrifically bad with the climate before the equation would change much. Indoor farming also couldn't be done at nearly the same volume, and expanding capacity would be very slow. I'm optimistic that in the long run, we'll find sources of nourishment which can be grown quickly in compact, easily managed closed-loop environments with minimal inputs... however, after the disillusionment of trying to find progress toward this end the real world, all I can say is we need a LOT more people working on it.