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How practical is bitcoin as a currency for day to day use. I thought the transaction time was 10 to 30 minutes. I get frustrated at the checkout counter when

How practical is bitcoin as a currency for day to day use. I thought the transaction time was 10 to 30 minutes. I get frustrated at the checkout counter when my credit card takes longer than 10 seconds. 10 to 30 minutes seems a lot closer to how long it takes for a stock sale to go through on E-Trade so I can see why the IRS would classify it more like a stock than currency.

icebraining 7y ago
All cryptocurrencies get treated the same, regardless of whether a transaction takes 10 minutes or 10 milliseconds.
Jach 7y ago
Ignoring the periods in the past with very high transaction fees and network congestion, for the most part it's been as practical as a card and often faster since I can just use my phone to scan a QR code and click a verify button. We can also ignore the lightning network in the calculation of practicality. Normally if I send you a payment you'll see the notification of a pending transaction with the amount on your side pretty much immediately. There is a risk that I could after walking off with the goods create a new transaction with a higher fee (especially if the replace-by-fee flag was part of the original send, and one might want to be more cautious if that was the case) to send them to myself instead, though even if I try it's not guaranteed to succeed. If you wait around for on average ten minutes (could in actuality be a few seconds, could be more than ten minutes) for the transaction to get one confirmation in a block you can be a lot more certain no shenanigans will occur. Most merchants will use a third party system that will take on this risk for you. I don't know if third party systems like Stripe do the same for credit cards, but credit cards have the same risk profile. (I can call up my card company and claim a fraudulent charge after getting the goods. They'll then in turn not honor the charge. It takes something like 180 days before a CC charge becomes much harder for the payer to dispute, vs. bitcoin's 10 minutes for very hard and 60 minutes for basically impossible. Seems like an ok tradeoff to me.)
- navigatesol 7y ago
  >for the most part it's been as practical as a card and often faster Have you ever used a card? If you think that opening your phone, scanning a QR and then hitting "verify" is faster than a tap or swipe of your credit card, I'm not sure what to tell you. Best case scenario, they're about the same. >I can call up my card company and claim a fraudulent charge after getting the goods And they'll investigate and determine you committed fraud, and you'll be fined or go to prison. What's the equivalent with Bitcoin?
  - Jach 7y ago
    I of course use a card frequently, though have yet to have the "pleasure" of dealing with a tap-to-pay card. I don't really want to. I'd say average case (not best case) is they're about the same, but yes, getting out my phone and unlocking it, opening the bitcoin app, scanning the QR code and hitting confirm, then putting my phone away, is indeed often faster than getting out my wallet, picking out my card from the other crap in there, inserting it into the chip reader (or swiping it), and hitting confirm (after maybe having to enter a pin or zip code or tell it "this is a credit card" or dismiss a "do you want to donate to grocery store's cause-of-the-month?" dialog) and then sometimes having to sign a printout or a touch screen, then putting my card back into the wallet and putting my wallet away. CCs are a usability nightmare that I'm amazed we put up with. > And they'll investigate Have you never reported fraudulent charges before? There's basically no investigation unless it was an ACH thing.
    - sjy 7y ago
      Using a tap-to-pay card would probably change your perspective. They were specifically designed to eliminate that usability nightmare. I find them easier to use than Apple Pay (because Touch ID only works about 90% of the time for me), and certainly easier than scanning a QR code (look at the queue of people struggling to enter any concert with electronic ticketing). The only downside is that you still have to carry a card.
  - aianus 7y ago
    > And they'll investigate and determine you committed fraud, and you'll be fined or go to prison. Trust me, nothing happens to these people. From first-hand experience I know that the merchant eats the cost 99% of the time when it's a card-not-present transaction.
lawn 7y ago
When you pay with a credit card the merchant only gets a payment notification, the money is transferred much later. You'll get a notification in seconds with Bitcoin as well. Of course I have to mention that Bitcoin has unreliable and sometimes very high fees. This is a problem with Bitcoin specifically not with cryptocurrencies in general. As a practical example I bought computer parts recently and I paid with Bitcoin Cash. When I was prompted to pay I scanned a QR code with my phone and I was done. It was even smoother than having to input my credit card numbers into the site. Of course the experience is the same if you pay in person, which I did at a restaurant when I visited Japan. Extremely easy.
rolltiide 7y ago
> 10 to 30 minutes seems a lot closer to how long it takes for a stock sale to go through on E-Trade so I can see why the IRS would classify it more like a stock than currency. weird analogy. stock sales take 3 business days to go through, and the proceeds take another 3 business days to be spendable in a different checking account at a different institution. the securities regulator is trying to get stock sales to get down to 2 and 1 business day. brokers like e-trade hide most of this behind the scenes, and you can certainly "sell a stock" in a few seconds on etrade. So not sure why it takes you 10-30 minutes?
rolltiide 7y ago
> How practical is bitcoin as a currency for day to day use. I thought the transaction time was 10 to 30 minutes. I get frustrated at the checkout counter when my credit card takes longer than 10 seconds. Its not very practical but this is mostly related to the merchant software and not the underlying technology any longer. A) Merchants do not have to wait for a transaction to "go through", just like many credit card accepting merchants don't actually connect to the network when they swipe your card. They broadcast the transaction to the payment processor later. The same is possible with bitcoin, resulting in instant transactions for the user experience. It is an option with compromises, just like accepting credit cards is an option with compromises. B) Consumers can broadcast the transaction to the merchant at the point of sale, but merchants do not have to wait for it to be added to the blockchain. This also results in near instantaneous transactions. It is an option, with compromises, just like accepting credit cards is an option with compromises. C) Consumers can transmit a signed transaction to the merchant, without needing internet connectivity (nfc, qr codes, sound, bluetooth can work). Merchants can be the internet connected ones and check a balance. This would also be an instanteous user experience. D) Consumers can transmit unsigned transactions to the merchant without needing internet connectivity, this is the same as C) but also allows for paper notes like national currency with denominations, without exposing the private key of the consumer's treasury. so there is a lot to build.
anonymous5133 7y ago
It's completely useless basically, unless you are paying online for something. For day-to-day purchases, it seems most people are just buying gift cards with their BTC. That seems to get the job done very effectively. Also keep in mind, there are other cryptos that exist where the transaction fee is basically free and the transaction confirms in under 2 seconds. Nano is one that comes to mind. Bitcoin is definitely falling into the "e-gold" category if you ask me.
xur17 7y ago
> How practical is bitcoin as a currency for day to day use. I thought the transaction time was 10 to 30 minutes. I get frustrated at the checkout counter when my credit card takes longer than 10 seconds. It is, but there are additional technologies being built on top of it that get transaction times down to < 1 second (lightning network). It's definitely still rough around the edges, but it's at the point where it's usable for day to day use.

icebraining 7y ago

All cryptocurrencies get treated the same, regardless of whether a transaction takes 10 minutes or 10 milliseconds.

Jach 7y ago

Ignoring the periods in the past with very high transaction fees and network congestion, for the most part it's been as practical as a card and often faster since I can just use my phone to scan a QR code and click a verify button. We can also ignore the lightning network in the calculation of practicality. Normally if I send you a payment you'll see the notification of a pending transaction with the amount on your side pretty much immediately. There is a risk that I could after walking off with the goods create a new transaction with a higher fee (especially if the replace-by-fee flag was part of the original send, and one might want to be more cautious if that was the case) to send them to myself instead, though even if I try it's not guaranteed to succeed. If you wait around for on average ten minutes (could in actuality be a few seconds, could be more than ten minutes) for the transaction to get one confirmation in a block you can be a lot more certain no shenanigans will occur. Most merchants will use a third party system that will take on this risk for you. I don't know if third party systems like Stripe do the same for credit cards, but credit cards have the same risk profile. (I can call up my card company and claim a fraudulent charge after getting the goods. They'll then in turn not honor the charge. It takes something like 180 days before a CC charge becomes much harder for the payer to dispute, vs. bitcoin's 10 minutes for very hard and 60 minutes for basically impossible. Seems like an ok tradeoff to me.)

navigatesol 7y ago
>for the most part it's been as practical as a card and often faster Have you ever used a card? If you think that opening your phone, scanning a QR and then hitting "verify" is faster than a tap or swipe of your credit card, I'm not sure what to tell you. Best case scenario, they're about the same. >I can call up my card company and claim a fraudulent charge after getting the goods And they'll investigate and determine you committed fraud, and you'll be fined or go to prison. What's the equivalent with Bitcoin?
- Jach 7y ago
  I of course use a card frequently, though have yet to have the "pleasure" of dealing with a tap-to-pay card. I don't really want to. I'd say average case (not best case) is they're about the same, but yes, getting out my phone and unlocking it, opening the bitcoin app, scanning the QR code and hitting confirm, then putting my phone away, is indeed often faster than getting out my wallet, picking out my card from the other crap in there, inserting it into the chip reader (or swiping it), and hitting confirm (after maybe having to enter a pin or zip code or tell it "this is a credit card" or dismiss a "do you want to donate to grocery store's cause-of-the-month?" dialog) and then sometimes having to sign a printout or a touch screen, then putting my card back into the wallet and putting my wallet away. CCs are a usability nightmare that I'm amazed we put up with. > And they'll investigate Have you never reported fraudulent charges before? There's basically no investigation unless it was an ACH thing.
  - sjy 7y ago
    Using a tap-to-pay card would probably change your perspective. They were specifically designed to eliminate that usability nightmare. I find them easier to use than Apple Pay (because Touch ID only works about 90% of the time for me), and certainly easier than scanning a QR code (look at the queue of people struggling to enter any concert with electronic ticketing). The only downside is that you still have to carry a card.
- aianus 7y ago
  > And they'll investigate and determine you committed fraud, and you'll be fined or go to prison. Trust me, nothing happens to these people. From first-hand experience I know that the merchant eats the cost 99% of the time when it's a card-not-present transaction.

lawn 7y ago

When you pay with a credit card the merchant only gets a payment notification, the money is transferred much later. You'll get a notification in seconds with Bitcoin as well. Of course I have to mention that Bitcoin has unreliable and sometimes very high fees. This is a problem with Bitcoin specifically not with cryptocurrencies in general. As a practical example I bought computer parts recently and I paid with Bitcoin Cash. When I was prompted to pay I scanned a QR code with my phone and I was done. It was even smoother than having to input my credit card numbers into the site. Of course the experience is the same if you pay in person, which I did at a restaurant when I visited Japan. Extremely easy.

rolltiide 7y ago

> 10 to 30 minutes seems a lot closer to how long it takes for a stock sale to go through on E-Trade so I can see why the IRS would classify it more like a stock than currency. weird analogy. stock sales take 3 business days to go through, and the proceeds take another 3 business days to be spendable in a different checking account at a different institution. the securities regulator is trying to get stock sales to get down to 2 and 1 business day. brokers like e-trade hide most of this behind the scenes, and you can certainly "sell a stock" in a few seconds on etrade. So not sure why it takes you 10-30 minutes?

rolltiide 7y ago

> How practical is bitcoin as a currency for day to day use. I thought the transaction time was 10 to 30 minutes. I get frustrated at the checkout counter when my credit card takes longer than 10 seconds. Its not very practical but this is mostly related to the merchant software and not the underlying technology any longer. A) Merchants do not have to wait for a transaction to "go through", just like many credit card accepting merchants don't actually connect to the network when they swipe your card. They broadcast the transaction to the payment processor later. The same is possible with bitcoin, resulting in instant transactions for the user experience. It is an option with compromises, just like accepting credit cards is an option with compromises. B) Consumers can broadcast the transaction to the merchant at the point of sale, but merchants do not have to wait for it to be added to the blockchain. This also results in near instantaneous transactions. It is an option, with compromises, just like accepting credit cards is an option with compromises. C) Consumers can transmit a signed transaction to the merchant, without needing internet connectivity (nfc, qr codes, sound, bluetooth can work). Merchants can be the internet connected ones and check a balance. This would also be an instanteous user experience. D) Consumers can transmit unsigned transactions to the merchant without needing internet connectivity, this is the same as C) but also allows for paper notes like national currency with denominations, without exposing the private key of the consumer's treasury. so there is a lot to build.

anonymous5133 7y ago

It's completely useless basically, unless you are paying online for something. For day-to-day purchases, it seems most people are just buying gift cards with their BTC. That seems to get the job done very effectively. Also keep in mind, there are other cryptos that exist where the transaction fee is basically free and the transaction confirms in under 2 seconds. Nano is one that comes to mind. Bitcoin is definitely falling into the "e-gold" category if you ask me.

xur17 7y ago

> How practical is bitcoin as a currency for day to day use. I thought the transaction time was 10 to 30 minutes. I get frustrated at the checkout counter when my credit card takes longer than 10 seconds. It is, but there are additional technologies being built on top of it that get transaction times down to < 1 second (lightning network). It's definitely still rough around the edges, but it's at the point where it's usable for day to day use.