5 ms·

Spotify Is the Coolest Music Service You Can't Use

15 points by abraham 16y ago

jbail 16y ago
I wonder why Spotify gets the press for not being able to negotiate the deals required to bring their service to the States when companies like MOG are already offering pretty much the same thing? I understand MOG doesn't have a free version and that's the utopian dream of Spotify (so says Wired) --- but Spotify bled money out their noses last year. They were hundreds of millions of dollars in the red. I can't speak to MOG's profitability (I don't have info for them), but I guess as someone who lives in the States where people get sued over music, I look at Spotify and then at competing services like MOG and just sort of shrug my shoulders over $5/mo to get unlimited music onto all of my devices.
- robotron 16y ago
  Yeah, I was impressed by Spotify's UX but not the value as a consumer.
- CoryMathews 16y ago
  I always wondered the same. Especially when grooveshark (an amazing app by the way) essentially offers the same thing. Free streaming, huge library, etc. With the exception of the excellent free word of mouth advertising spotify has been getting.
  - citricsquid 16y ago
    grooveshark stream their music unlicensed (except for a small amount they have licensed, but it's a relatively small amount) and make money from it. Grooveshark is wrong and I'd personally love to see them shut down. As much as the music industry is fucked up, unless you have permission to profit from someones content you shouldn't but grooveshark do and abuse the DMCA safe harbors. Sure if grooveshark wasn't for profit then maybe it'd be justifiable, but they profit off a product they don't own or have the permission to, it's lame and entirely immoral. It's limewire but with the content stored in one place... they must have some damn good lawyers.
    - kin 16y ago
      Though it may seem that way Grooveshark actually has a system compensating labels per time song is played. The unethical part is that its an opt-in system. In other words, they steal first and pay back later if asked nicely. On a plus, they do promote independent bands and offer compensation for such. So, I wouldn't go as far as saying they're like Limewire.
JonnieCache 16y ago
It is as amazing a UX as people describe it to be. Believe the hype. I have never once had more than 100-200ms lag when playing/seeking a track. And we use it a lot. And it has almost everything I've ever searched for on it. These days it is starting to become more likely for obscure, independently-distributed music to be there than not to be there. The data structure it puts your local music metadata index into is performant enough to search terabytes of mp3s without getting bogged down. No other music software I've tried can do this. And it streams in ogg. What more do you want.
- rue 16y ago
  Does it have discovery features, or do you need to know what to listen to? Assuming you have no friends to get suggestions from.
  - Waywocket 16y ago
    No it doesn't. (Or if it does, then the UI needs fixing to make it discoverable)
    - JonnieCache 16y ago
      It has the "similar artists" metadata from http://allmusic.com http://allmusic.com embedded into the UI. They licensed it, along with the artist biographies. This data is expert-compiled and fairly comprehensive, but there is no statistically compiled data a-la last.fm. I imagine they are working on this functionality.
    - andreaja 16y ago
      It has a radio mode, which while not praticularly smart, does let you do some discovery. You can also use the last.fm integration to get recommendations off last.fm then listen to them on spotify I guess. Smart recommendations, however, are not the experience they're looking for. Spotify seem to be aiming for actual human recommendations. They're focusing much more on the social stuff, both in marketing and engineering hours, than they are on trying to tell you what music to listen to.
petercooper 16y ago
Now America gets to know how it feels to us Europeans when something cool comes out in the US that we can't use or watch ;-) Seriously, though, Spotify is great and I've been a subscriber for a while. Its coverage isn't 100% but is close enough for anything within a wide gamut of "popular." On the negative side, Spotify has caused me to hardly buy any music in the last year and is saving me a ton of money... which isn't going to the artists whose music I'd have bought. Could that model survive long-term?
- daleharvey 16y ago
  'On the negative side, Spotify has caused me to hardly buy any music in the last year and is saving me a ton of money... which isn't going to the artists whose music I'd have bought. Could that model survive long-term?' On the positive side, Spotify has caused me to not pirate any music in the last year and introduced me to lot of bands who I have went on to see live.
  - petercooper 16y ago
    Interesting.. I'm hoping people like you can help balance out the effect people like me are having (I have zero interest in seeing music live or buying merchandise, so it's a raw deal for them from me alone).
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
cleverjake 16y ago
Spotify is easy to use in the us, both free and paid accounts. Free - use tor. You can specify specific exit nodes. Use this to both sign up, and login once every two weeks. Spotify allows for two weeks of "travel" before having to sign in from an ip based in your accounts home country. Just login for one second once every two weeks on tor, and enjoy free desktop streaming. Paid - use a pay pal account based in a country that Spotify is allowed in, with a bank card. Since you will not be shipping anything, you can specify a billing address from some location in the country your signing up in. I pay for an account, I love streaming in my car.
bdb 16y ago
Except, um, you can use it in the States. Spin up a cheap VPS in one of their licensed countries, http://www.lowendbox.com/tag/uk/ http://www.lowendbox.com/tag/uk/ share it with some friends, ssh -D, point Spotify at your proxy... not hard.
- jmtulloss 16y ago
  The article isn't written for people that know how to do that.
  - bdb 16y ago
    Of course. But it was posted here, and most of the people here know how to do that. My real message, which was obfuscated by the snark in my original post, was that it's worth checking out for the user experience alone -- in an age where we're all out building web apps, it's pretty cool to see a new thick desktop client that is just so good.
Locke1689 16y ago
Thus far my alternative to Spotify in the US has been Grooveshark. Since I've never used Spotify I don't know if it's as good but it seems close (feature-parity-wise).
samstokes 16y ago
Spotify is great, but the article paints it as the utopian fulfilment of the evolution of the music industry. While it would be wonderful (as a Brit) to think the European music industry has finally reached enlightenment, that's not the case. * it's not "any song by any artist" (although it does pretty well). Recent releases are generally missing; certain artists (like Bob Dylan) and labels have opted out entirely. * Spotify has negotiated a deal with the collection agencies to get its music catalog. If the agencies decide to renegotiate, they could essentially kill Spotify at will (like what nearly happened to Pandora, and forced them to block non-US listeners). * the service doesn't "support itself" - last year it lost £16 million [1]. While I'm sure they have plans to reach breakeven, until they do they're dependent in principle on their ability to raise new capital. * the "big four" major European record labels are investors and shareholders in Spotify, between them holding nearly 20% of the company according to some sources [2]. They probably (speculation) have board seats. In other words, the labels have significant control over Spotify's direction and decisions. * the popularity of Spotify is a highly visible PR win for the music industry's political campaign. The EU and its member states are currently debating things like copyright reform and how to stimulate an IP-centric economy. The record labels, of course, lobby to keep the law exactly how it is, but with stronger rights enforcement measures (preferably in civil as well as criminal cases) and longer copyright terms. Entrepreneurs are calling for things like a compulsory music license for online broadcasting, meaning music startups could experiment with new business models with predictable costs, and without the massive existential risk of having to individually negotiate terms with the collection agencies. Spotify means the music industry gets to say "look, music startups are doing great!", hiding the fact that most prospective music startups won't ever have the chance to get the kind of licensing deal Spotify got by handing over equity to the labels. I'm not meaning to bash on Spotify as a service - it's brilliant. But it's not an indicator that the music industry "finally gets it". The music industry is just as screwed and stupid as it's always been, and their backing of Spotify is so politicised it's hard to see it as a good sign. [1] http://eu.techcrunch.com/2010/11/22/spotify-had-a-16-66m-loss-in-2009-a-rumoured-us-launch-is-now-imperative/ http://eu.techcrunch.com/2010/11/22/spotify-had-a-16-66m-los... [2] http://techcrunch.com/2009/08/07/this-is-quite-possibly-the-spotify-cap-table/ http://techcrunch.com/2009/08/07/this-is-quite-possibly-the-...
cannedprimates 16y ago
There's a paper about Spotify's internals which is quite interesting: http://www.nada.kth.se/~gkreitz/spotify-p2p10/spotify-p2p10.pdf http://www.nada.kth.se/~gkreitz/spotify-p2p10/spotify-p2p10.... (another happy user here)

15 points by abraham 16y ago

jbail 16y ago

I wonder why Spotify gets the press for not being able to negotiate the deals required to bring their service to the States when companies like MOG are already offering pretty much the same thing? I understand MOG doesn't have a free version and that's the utopian dream of Spotify (so says Wired) --- but Spotify bled money out their noses last year. They were hundreds of millions of dollars in the red. I can't speak to MOG's profitability (I don't have info for them), but I guess as someone who lives in the States where people get sued over music, I look at Spotify and then at competing services like MOG and just sort of shrug my shoulders over $5/mo to get unlimited music onto all of my devices.

robotron 16y ago
Yeah, I was impressed by Spotify's UX but not the value as a consumer.
CoryMathews 16y ago
I always wondered the same. Especially when grooveshark (an amazing app by the way) essentially offers the same thing. Free streaming, huge library, etc. With the exception of the excellent free word of mouth advertising spotify has been getting.
- citricsquid 16y ago
  grooveshark stream their music unlicensed (except for a small amount they have licensed, but it's a relatively small amount) and make money from it. Grooveshark is wrong and I'd personally love to see them shut down. As much as the music industry is fucked up, unless you have permission to profit from someones content you shouldn't but grooveshark do and abuse the DMCA safe harbors. Sure if grooveshark wasn't for profit then maybe it'd be justifiable, but they profit off a product they don't own or have the permission to, it's lame and entirely immoral. It's limewire but with the content stored in one place... they must have some damn good lawyers.
  - kin 16y ago
    Though it may seem that way Grooveshark actually has a system compensating labels per time song is played. The unethical part is that its an opt-in system. In other words, they steal first and pay back later if asked nicely. On a plus, they do promote independent bands and offer compensation for such. So, I wouldn't go as far as saying they're like Limewire.

JonnieCache 16y ago

It is as amazing a UX as people describe it to be. Believe the hype. I have never once had more than 100-200ms lag when playing/seeking a track. And we use it a lot. And it has almost everything I've ever searched for on it. These days it is starting to become more likely for obscure, independently-distributed music to be there than not to be there. The data structure it puts your local music metadata index into is performant enough to search terabytes of mp3s without getting bogged down. No other music software I've tried can do this. And it streams in ogg. What more do you want.

rue 16y ago
Does it have discovery features, or do you need to know what to listen to? Assuming you have no friends to get suggestions from.
- Waywocket 16y ago
  No it doesn't. (Or if it does, then the UI needs fixing to make it discoverable)
  - JonnieCache 16y ago
    It has the "similar artists" metadata from http://allmusic.com http://allmusic.com embedded into the UI. They licensed it, along with the artist biographies. This data is expert-compiled and fairly comprehensive, but there is no statistically compiled data a-la last.fm. I imagine they are working on this functionality.
  - andreaja 16y ago
    It has a radio mode, which while not praticularly smart, does let you do some discovery. You can also use the last.fm integration to get recommendations off last.fm then listen to them on spotify I guess. Smart recommendations, however, are not the experience they're looking for. Spotify seem to be aiming for actual human recommendations. They're focusing much more on the social stuff, both in marketing and engineering hours, than they are on trying to tell you what music to listen to.

petercooper 16y ago

Now America gets to know how it feels to us Europeans when something cool comes out in the US that we can't use or watch ;-) Seriously, though, Spotify is great and I've been a subscriber for a while. Its coverage isn't 100% but is close enough for anything within a wide gamut of "popular." On the negative side, Spotify has caused me to hardly buy any music in the last year and is saving me a ton of money... which isn't going to the artists whose music I'd have bought. Could that model survive long-term?

daleharvey 16y ago
'On the negative side, Spotify has caused me to hardly buy any music in the last year and is saving me a ton of money... which isn't going to the artists whose music I'd have bought. Could that model survive long-term?' On the positive side, Spotify has caused me to not pirate any music in the last year and introduced me to lot of bands who I have went on to see live.
- petercooper 16y ago
  Interesting.. I'm hoping people like you can help balance out the effect people like me are having (I have zero interest in seeing music live or buying merchandise, so it's a raw deal for them from me alone).

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

cleverjake 16y ago

Spotify is easy to use in the us, both free and paid accounts. Free - use tor. You can specify specific exit nodes. Use this to both sign up, and login once every two weeks. Spotify allows for two weeks of "travel" before having to sign in from an ip based in your accounts home country. Just login for one second once every two weeks on tor, and enjoy free desktop streaming. Paid - use a pay pal account based in a country that Spotify is allowed in, with a bank card. Since you will not be shipping anything, you can specify a billing address from some location in the country your signing up in. I pay for an account, I love streaming in my car.

bdb 16y ago

Except, um, you can use it in the States. Spin up a cheap VPS in one of their licensed countries, http://www.lowendbox.com/tag/uk/ http://www.lowendbox.com/tag/uk/ share it with some friends, ssh -D, point Spotify at your proxy... not hard.

jmtulloss 16y ago
The article isn't written for people that know how to do that.
- bdb 16y ago
  Of course. But it was posted here, and most of the people here know how to do that. My real message, which was obfuscated by the snark in my original post, was that it's worth checking out for the user experience alone -- in an age where we're all out building web apps, it's pretty cool to see a new thick desktop client that is just so good.

Locke1689 16y ago

Thus far my alternative to Spotify in the US has been Grooveshark. Since I've never used Spotify I don't know if it's as good but it seems close (feature-parity-wise).

samstokes 16y ago

Spotify is great, but the article paints it as the utopian fulfilment of the evolution of the music industry. While it would be wonderful (as a Brit) to think the European music industry has finally reached enlightenment, that's not the case. * it's not "any song by any artist" (although it does pretty well). Recent releases are generally missing; certain artists (like Bob Dylan) and labels have opted out entirely. * Spotify has negotiated a deal with the collection agencies to get its music catalog. If the agencies decide to renegotiate, they could essentially kill Spotify at will (like what nearly happened to Pandora, and forced them to block non-US listeners). * the service doesn't "support itself" - last year it lost £16 million [1]. While I'm sure they have plans to reach breakeven, until they do they're dependent in principle on their ability to raise new capital. * the "big four" major European record labels are investors and shareholders in Spotify, between them holding nearly 20% of the company according to some sources [2]. They probably (speculation) have board seats. In other words, the labels have significant control over Spotify's direction and decisions. * the popularity of Spotify is a highly visible PR win for the music industry's political campaign. The EU and its member states are currently debating things like copyright reform and how to stimulate an IP-centric economy. The record labels, of course, lobby to keep the law exactly how it is, but with stronger rights enforcement measures (preferably in civil as well as criminal cases) and longer copyright terms. Entrepreneurs are calling for things like a compulsory music license for online broadcasting, meaning music startups could experiment with new business models with predictable costs, and without the massive existential risk of having to individually negotiate terms with the collection agencies. Spotify means the music industry gets to say "look, music startups are doing great!", hiding the fact that most prospective music startups won't ever have the chance to get the kind of licensing deal Spotify got by handing over equity to the labels. I'm not meaning to bash on Spotify as a service - it's brilliant. But it's not an indicator that the music industry "finally gets it". The music industry is just as screwed and stupid as it's always been, and their backing of Spotify is so politicised it's hard to see it as a good sign. [1] http://eu.techcrunch.com/2010/11/22/spotify-had-a-16-66m-loss-in-2009-a-rumoured-us-launch-is-now-imperative/ http://eu.techcrunch.com/2010/11/22/spotify-had-a-16-66m-los... [2] http://techcrunch.com/2009/08/07/this-is-quite-possibly-the-spotify-cap-table/ http://techcrunch.com/2009/08/07/this-is-quite-possibly-the-...

cannedprimates 16y ago

There's a paper about Spotify's internals which is quite interesting: http://www.nada.kth.se/~gkreitz/spotify-p2p10/spotify-p2p10.pdf http://www.nada.kth.se/~gkreitz/spotify-p2p10/spotify-p2p10.... (another happy user here)