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> regardless of how much better it is. No, the simple truth is it's not better if users hate it. It means it failed to account for existing users and their use

> regardless of how much better it is. No, the simple truth is it's not better if users hate it. It means it failed to account for existing users and their use cases.

wycy 7y ago
With that rationale you literally can't change anything ever. Version 1.0 ever after. It is better if it ultimately just takes time for them to like it. The same people who initially hated it will most likely grow to like it. When we migrated from Windows 7 to Windows 10 last year, my boss was extremely upset--but he was just as upset a decade ago having to upgrade to Windows 7 in the first place. Users come around eventually.
- rurp 7y ago
  God I hate this kind of paternalistic reasoning from developers. Nobody is saying that you can never update software ever, just that those updates should be driven by a clear functional reason. Implementing a change that you know your users will hate just to switch to a "modern" UI does not serve users. > Users come around eventually. How do you know? A number of apps I use have overhauled their UI in a way that made it look shinier at a glance, but categorically worse for actually using. I either stopped using them if the change was too awful, or eventually just stopped leaving negative feedback once it was clear the devs didn't care. Never once have I hated an update at first and later thought to myself, "Wow I was so wrong, this update is actually amazing, I'm glad the dev team ignored all of that negative feedback and forced it on their existing users".
- handoflixue 7y ago
  > With that rationale you literally can't change anything ever. Version 1.0 ever after. The point was IF users hate it, you probably did something wrong in the redesign. That doesn't exclude the possibility of doing a redesign that users are excited about. Plenty of IM clients I use update semi-regularly with new features, and I'm either neutral or excited based on whether I plan to use that feature, but I'm never upset because they're not breaking my existing workflow. And, yes, sometimes a redesign just takes time to come around to, but there's also lots of redesigns that genuinely reduce functionality. I've lost track of how many times an update has outright removed a favorite feature of mine, reduced configuration options, and so on. This might be a sensible business decision, but it's not to my benefit.
gmueckl 7y ago
No, this is not true at all. In fact, the very first software project I was paid for was a perfect example: I had to replace an ancient DOS based database app with something more modern. The end result had a GUI that was completely different, barely retained the same workflow, had tons of new input validation that users had to cope with all of a sudden. End result? They had a knee jerk hate for it when they saw it. They would have to re-learn routines they had settled into for about 10 years. So there was push-back. And it didn't last: a few weeks after the transition everybody told me that they liked the new app so much more. Why? Because they couldn't make that many dumb mistakes anymore that were tedius to correct. The app kept track of more information behind the scenes that helped then woth processing the data and - that was the main reason IMO - I had carefully designed a ton of tiny nearly invisible helpers into the UI that helped a lot with data entry. There was stuff like autocompletion that had context sensitive suggestions, form fields would pre-fill with the most likely values where appropriate etc. It was fairly subtle. It took a while for the users to learn all that. But once they understood the new way of doing things, noone wanted to go back anymore.
- xiphias2 7y ago
  The users didn’t hate the change, this change means that probably the user training sessions were inadequate. If you show them all the things that make their lives easier during the training session, they will love you for it.
  - gmueckl 7y ago
    I did show and explain repeatedly and patiently. It was just so different and bewildering on the surface that users were instinctively hostile to it at first.

> regardless of how much better it is. No, the simple truth is it's not better if users hate it. It means it failed to account for existing users and their use cases.

wycy 7y ago

With that rationale you literally can't change anything ever. Version 1.0 ever after. It is better if it ultimately just takes time for them to like it. The same people who initially hated it will most likely grow to like it. When we migrated from Windows 7 to Windows 10 last year, my boss was extremely upset--but he was just as upset a decade ago having to upgrade to Windows 7 in the first place. Users come around eventually.

rurp 7y ago
God I hate this kind of paternalistic reasoning from developers. Nobody is saying that you can never update software ever, just that those updates should be driven by a clear functional reason. Implementing a change that you know your users will hate just to switch to a "modern" UI does not serve users. > Users come around eventually. How do you know? A number of apps I use have overhauled their UI in a way that made it look shinier at a glance, but categorically worse for actually using. I either stopped using them if the change was too awful, or eventually just stopped leaving negative feedback once it was clear the devs didn't care. Never once have I hated an update at first and later thought to myself, "Wow I was so wrong, this update is actually amazing, I'm glad the dev team ignored all of that negative feedback and forced it on their existing users".
handoflixue 7y ago
> With that rationale you literally can't change anything ever. Version 1.0 ever after. The point was IF users hate it, you probably did something wrong in the redesign. That doesn't exclude the possibility of doing a redesign that users are excited about. Plenty of IM clients I use update semi-regularly with new features, and I'm either neutral or excited based on whether I plan to use that feature, but I'm never upset because they're not breaking my existing workflow. And, yes, sometimes a redesign just takes time to come around to, but there's also lots of redesigns that genuinely reduce functionality. I've lost track of how many times an update has outright removed a favorite feature of mine, reduced configuration options, and so on. This might be a sensible business decision, but it's not to my benefit.

gmueckl 7y ago

No, this is not true at all. In fact, the very first software project I was paid for was a perfect example: I had to replace an ancient DOS based database app with something more modern. The end result had a GUI that was completely different, barely retained the same workflow, had tons of new input validation that users had to cope with all of a sudden. End result? They had a knee jerk hate for it when they saw it. They would have to re-learn routines they had settled into for about 10 years. So there was push-back. And it didn't last: a few weeks after the transition everybody told me that they liked the new app so much more. Why? Because they couldn't make that many dumb mistakes anymore that were tedius to correct. The app kept track of more information behind the scenes that helped then woth processing the data and - that was the main reason IMO - I had carefully designed a ton of tiny nearly invisible helpers into the UI that helped a lot with data entry. There was stuff like autocompletion that had context sensitive suggestions, form fields would pre-fill with the most likely values where appropriate etc. It was fairly subtle. It took a while for the users to learn all that. But once they understood the new way of doing things, noone wanted to go back anymore.

xiphias2 7y ago
The users didn’t hate the change, this change means that probably the user training sessions were inadequate. If you show them all the things that make their lives easier during the training session, they will love you for it.
- gmueckl 7y ago
  I did show and explain repeatedly and patiently. It was just so different and bewildering on the surface that users were instinctively hostile to it at first.