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I think these experiments are meaningful and fascinating for research purposes, but they will never be more efficient than nature. The solution to food security

I think these experiments are meaningful and fascinating for research purposes, but they will never be more efficient than nature. The solution to food security is not to re-engineer the farm, but to return food production to people, because the most dangerous thing we can do is to consolidate our food production into the hands of a few ag-tech corporations. Granted, I'm talking about a cultural shift and you can't force people to enjoy gardening, but there are some people who are doing incredible experiments in urban farming which is still mostly low-tech. Even though he is an extreme example, Rob Greenfield shows what is possible with a typical 1/8 acre city/suburban lot. He is currently experimenting with growing/foraging 100% of his diet in a city. http://robgreenfield.tv/foodfreedom/ http://robgreenfield.tv/foodfreedom/ The biggest shift will be to convince people that turfgrass lawns are the one of the biggest waste of resources in the modern world, and a silly cultural relic.

goda90 7y ago
Gardening is great, but you can't get your full diet from a suburban sized lot. No matter what, big staple food farms will be needed.
- ph0rque 7y ago
  Depending on what you mean by a suburban-sized lot... here's my blog post on complete nutrition from plants, eggs, and fish (all of which can be grown/raised on a typical lot): https://automicrofarm.com/blog/2018/08/complete-nutrition-no-mammal.html https://automicrofarm.com/blog/2018/08/complete-nutrition-no...
  - goda90 7y ago
    And how much space do you need to grow all of that for 2 people for 365 days in a year considering that only some of it can grow year round in many places.
    - ph0rque 7y ago
      To grow year-round, you would need to have a greenhouse in a lot of climates. (I'm working on a blog post to answer the space needed question.)
  - reggieband 7y ago
    Can you put lot size into square-feet or fractions of acres? How much arable land exactly (considering buildings and other things take up land space)? I'm currently looking at places where growing some of my own food might be possible and I'm curious what is possible.
    - ph0rque 7y ago
      Yes, will do when I get the needed spacing blog post up!
- squish78 7y ago
  I don't think the average person should expect or try to. But there are people who produce tonnages of produce on a 1/10th acre (granted, these are in California and Florida with year-round growing). The person in my parent post talks about how he was able to grow 300 lbs of sweet potatoes on 200 sqft of yard with very little effort and input. I think the most important thing is for people to realize how much, 30%, 50%, 80% of their diet they could hypothetically produce. It is also great motivation to transition one's diet away from processed food to vegetables. I don't believe any of these ideas should be an all-or-nothing venture but if individuals can take back just 10% -20% of their diet from unethical agri-business, it's a MASSIVE win for health, self-reliance, environmental awareness, and community building
ph0rque 7y ago
> The solution to food security is not to re-engineer the farm, but to return food production to people... I agree so much I started a side project, https://automicrofarm.com/ https://automicrofarm.com/
- squish78 7y ago
  What a cool idea. I'm encouraged everytime I see projects like these and I realize that there's a massive movement towards sustainable agriculture in small spaces.
VBprogrammer 7y ago
I really like the idea of growing our own food and have intended to create some raised beds in our garden. I've started taking baby steps this year by growing some herbs. Turns out that's about 10x the effort I imagined it was going to be. I think I might have killed a good portion of them yesterday with the 38 degree heat.
- sametmax 7y ago
  It is a lot of work, but there is litterally an order of magnitude in time and energy you spend to get the same result, depending of your technic. And when you start, you usually do it the hardest way.
  - pimlottc 7y ago
    Took me a moment to figure it out, but the word you are looking for is "technique". Unless you're talking about using Lego blocks :)
  - squish78 7y ago
    I agree. For a beginner, the first year is almost always disappointing. But after several years of trying and learning, you may be shocked at the abundance you can produce. I'm grateful for all the authors and youtube-ers doing some incredible and crazy projects that I can learn from
- squish78 7y ago
  Herbs are a fantastic place to start, and there are tons of medical benefits for consuming them regularly. I chew fresh mint and basil every day instead of gum Depending on your climate, you might enjoy mushroom cultivation. It's very low-effort and climate resistant to grow shiitakes or winecaps if you have some shade in your garden
UnFleshedOne 7y ago
Might need to ship all the extra people somewhere. I understand most of the arable land is already used for that purpose by extremely efficient (whatever else you might think of them) megafarms. Rob Greenfield's project only works because nobody else wants to forage the city and he says he farms yards of some people who don't do it themselves.
- squish78 7y ago
  The problem with megafarms is that they are not sustainable long-term. Such intensive agriculture pulls nutrients from the soil faster than they can be replenished - year after year after year. So farmers have to supplement more and more with chemical fertilizers, and the soil effectively becomes little more than a hydroponic medium. Potassium and phosphorous reserves are a finite resource to be mined. https://news.berkeley.edu/2015/05/07/soil-depletion-human-security/ https://news.berkeley.edu/2015/05/07/soil-depletion-human-se... The US needs more farmers and people living choosing a sustainable simple life, not smart tractors.

goda90 7y ago

Gardening is great, but you can't get your full diet from a suburban sized lot. No matter what, big staple food farms will be needed.

ph0rque 7y ago
Depending on what you mean by a suburban-sized lot... here's my blog post on complete nutrition from plants, eggs, and fish (all of which can be grown/raised on a typical lot): https://automicrofarm.com/blog/2018/08/complete-nutrition-no-mammal.html https://automicrofarm.com/blog/2018/08/complete-nutrition-no...
- goda90 7y ago
  And how much space do you need to grow all of that for 2 people for 365 days in a year considering that only some of it can grow year round in many places.
  - ph0rque 7y ago
    To grow year-round, you would need to have a greenhouse in a lot of climates. (I'm working on a blog post to answer the space needed question.)
- reggieband 7y ago
  Can you put lot size into square-feet or fractions of acres? How much arable land exactly (considering buildings and other things take up land space)? I'm currently looking at places where growing some of my own food might be possible and I'm curious what is possible.
  - ph0rque 7y ago
    Yes, will do when I get the needed spacing blog post up!
squish78 7y ago
I don't think the average person should expect or try to. But there are people who produce tonnages of produce on a 1/10th acre (granted, these are in California and Florida with year-round growing). The person in my parent post talks about how he was able to grow 300 lbs of sweet potatoes on 200 sqft of yard with very little effort and input. I think the most important thing is for people to realize how much, 30%, 50%, 80% of their diet they could hypothetically produce. It is also great motivation to transition one's diet away from processed food to vegetables. I don't believe any of these ideas should be an all-or-nothing venture but if individuals can take back just 10% -20% of their diet from unethical agri-business, it's a MASSIVE win for health, self-reliance, environmental awareness, and community building

ph0rque 7y ago

> The solution to food security is not to re-engineer the farm, but to return food production to people... I agree so much I started a side project, https://automicrofarm.com/ https://automicrofarm.com/

squish78 7y ago
What a cool idea. I'm encouraged everytime I see projects like these and I realize that there's a massive movement towards sustainable agriculture in small spaces.

VBprogrammer 7y ago

I really like the idea of growing our own food and have intended to create some raised beds in our garden. I've started taking baby steps this year by growing some herbs. Turns out that's about 10x the effort I imagined it was going to be. I think I might have killed a good portion of them yesterday with the 38 degree heat.

sametmax 7y ago
It is a lot of work, but there is litterally an order of magnitude in time and energy you spend to get the same result, depending of your technic. And when you start, you usually do it the hardest way.
- pimlottc 7y ago
  Took me a moment to figure it out, but the word you are looking for is "technique". Unless you're talking about using Lego blocks :)
- squish78 7y ago
  I agree. For a beginner, the first year is almost always disappointing. But after several years of trying and learning, you may be shocked at the abundance you can produce. I'm grateful for all the authors and youtube-ers doing some incredible and crazy projects that I can learn from
squish78 7y ago
Herbs are a fantastic place to start, and there are tons of medical benefits for consuming them regularly. I chew fresh mint and basil every day instead of gum Depending on your climate, you might enjoy mushroom cultivation. It's very low-effort and climate resistant to grow shiitakes or winecaps if you have some shade in your garden

UnFleshedOne 7y ago

Might need to ship all the extra people somewhere. I understand most of the arable land is already used for that purpose by extremely efficient (whatever else you might think of them) megafarms. Rob Greenfield's project only works because nobody else wants to forage the city and he says he farms yards of some people who don't do it themselves.

squish78 7y ago
The problem with megafarms is that they are not sustainable long-term. Such intensive agriculture pulls nutrients from the soil faster than they can be replenished - year after year after year. So farmers have to supplement more and more with chemical fertilizers, and the soil effectively becomes little more than a hydroponic medium. Potassium and phosphorous reserves are a finite resource to be mined. https://news.berkeley.edu/2015/05/07/soil-depletion-human-security/ https://news.berkeley.edu/2015/05/07/soil-depletion-human-se... The US needs more farmers and people living choosing a sustainable simple life, not smart tractors.