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So we should wait until every one's details are leaked before deciding this is a bad idea because it will inevitably leak? This is like the police refusing to

So we should wait until every one's details are leaked before deciding this is a bad idea because it will inevitably leak? This is like the police refusing to respond to death threats until the person is dead.

IanCal 7y ago
What they seem to be saying is not that the data hasn't leaked, but that it likely does not even exist. If that's true, a headline of "X has been copied" would be wrong if X didn't exist.
- dangerface 7y ago
  The data does exist, and they are and have been collating it into one super database according to the article pknight posted. So I go back to my argument: > So we should wait until every one's details are leaked before deciding this is a bad idea because it will inevitably leak?
  - ptaipale 7y ago
    You claim the data does exist - but where did it come from? There has been no program to forcibly collect fingerprints of all EU citizens. There is some biometric data collected for Schengen passports, but not even close to all people even have a passport. And if you claim my biometric passport fingerprints are in that DB, you are claiming that the police in my country has performed a massive illegal data handover. If you have evidence of that, give it - heads will roll.
    - loopbit 7y ago
      Maybe that data doesn't exist in your country. In mine, the police has the picture and fingerprints of everyone older than 12 years old and any younger person that needed an ID card for whatever reason, travelling being just one. Maybe that information has been shared with that database, maybe it hasn't. I have no way of knowing. Other EU countries have the same level of information about their citizens (and some record even more data). Can we simply agree that what the UK has done is bad, should be investigated and, if true, the people resposible should face charges for it? Or should we spend days arguing about what information might/might not have been copied and how many people have been afected?
      - Symbiote 7y ago
        I'm downvoting all the comments about "my country" without saying which country that is. No useful discussion can result from comments like this.
        loopbit 7y ago
        A bit late to the discussion, but does it really change that much if, instead of "my country", I say "Spain"? In this case Spain hasn't done anything wrong (the data gathering for the id cards was done before entering the EU and complies with EU's regulations[0]). Other EU countries gather less or more data according to their specific legislations. The country in question here is the UK and, to a lesser extent, the US. Specifics about other EU countries are, IMHO, irrelevant. [0] Another question, for a different discussion, is if they should record all that data.
    - miahi 7y ago
      For most countries, biometric passport data is only stored inside the passport's chip and not in a (national or otherwise) database. It's to be used by border control (of other countries) to compare the person presenting the passport with the (signed) data.
      - AdrianB1 7y ago
        For Romania, it is in a national database. Source: family member that is a high ranking policeman, he checked my records and there is more than I thought, having a perfectly clean criminal record.
jobigoud 7y ago
They are just saying the title should not contain the word "all". The linked tweet doesn't contain it either.
ptaipale 7y ago
No. That is not what I wrote, nor is it what I implied. I simply mean that the claim about fingerprints of 350 M EU citizens copied cannot be true.
- dangerface 7y ago
  The EU has been collecting fingerprints since 2004, they do have that data. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-fingerprints/fingerprints-in-european-passports-legal-eu-court-idUKBRE99G0FX20131017 https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-fingerprints/fingerprin...
  - sequence7 7y ago
    That link does not describe the EU collecting fingerprints it just reports that their is an EU requirement for passports to contain biometic data. The EU do not collect or store that data national governments do.
  - ptaipale 7y ago
    No. That link does not say so. Biometric passport data is collected by national goverments, not EU.
jammygit 7y ago
I received written death threats (letters cut and pasted from various papers) once and the police ignored it. I got attacked a week later

IanCal 7y ago

What they seem to be saying is not that the data hasn't leaked, but that it likely does not even exist. If that's true, a headline of "X has been copied" would be wrong if X didn't exist.

dangerface 7y ago
The data does exist, and they are and have been collating it into one super database according to the article pknight posted. So I go back to my argument: > So we should wait until every one's details are leaked before deciding this is a bad idea because it will inevitably leak?
- ptaipale 7y ago
  You claim the data does exist - but where did it come from? There has been no program to forcibly collect fingerprints of all EU citizens. There is some biometric data collected for Schengen passports, but not even close to all people even have a passport. And if you claim my biometric passport fingerprints are in that DB, you are claiming that the police in my country has performed a massive illegal data handover. If you have evidence of that, give it - heads will roll.
  - loopbit 7y ago
    Maybe that data doesn't exist in your country. In mine, the police has the picture and fingerprints of everyone older than 12 years old and any younger person that needed an ID card for whatever reason, travelling being just one. Maybe that information has been shared with that database, maybe it hasn't. I have no way of knowing. Other EU countries have the same level of information about their citizens (and some record even more data). Can we simply agree that what the UK has done is bad, should be investigated and, if true, the people resposible should face charges for it? Or should we spend days arguing about what information might/might not have been copied and how many people have been afected?
    - Symbiote 7y ago
      I'm downvoting all the comments about "my country" without saying which country that is. No useful discussion can result from comments like this.
      - loopbit 7y ago
        A bit late to the discussion, but does it really change that much if, instead of "my country", I say "Spain"? In this case Spain hasn't done anything wrong (the data gathering for the id cards was done before entering the EU and complies with EU's regulations[0]). Other EU countries gather less or more data according to their specific legislations. The country in question here is the UK and, to a lesser extent, the US. Specifics about other EU countries are, IMHO, irrelevant. [0] Another question, for a different discussion, is if they should record all that data.
  - miahi 7y ago
    For most countries, biometric passport data is only stored inside the passport's chip and not in a (national or otherwise) database. It's to be used by border control (of other countries) to compare the person presenting the passport with the (signed) data.
    - AdrianB1 7y ago
      For Romania, it is in a national database. Source: family member that is a high ranking policeman, he checked my records and there is more than I thought, having a perfectly clean criminal record.

jobigoud 7y ago

They are just saying the title should not contain the word "all". The linked tweet doesn't contain it either.

ptaipale 7y ago

No. That is not what I wrote, nor is it what I implied. I simply mean that the claim about fingerprints of 350 M EU citizens copied cannot be true.

dangerface 7y ago
The EU has been collecting fingerprints since 2004, they do have that data. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-fingerprints/fingerprints-in-european-passports-legal-eu-court-idUKBRE99G0FX20131017 https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-fingerprints/fingerprin...
- sequence7 7y ago
  That link does not describe the EU collecting fingerprints it just reports that their is an EU requirement for passports to contain biometic data. The EU do not collect or store that data national governments do.
- ptaipale 7y ago
  No. That link does not say so. Biometric passport data is collected by national goverments, not EU.

jammygit 7y ago

I received written death threats (letters cut and pasted from various papers) once and the police ignored it. I got attacked a week later