4 ms·

They’re most likely getting rid of it (if they do) because of the high failure rates, rather than for any other reason. The keyboard works fine when it’s workin

They’re most likely getting rid of it (if they do) because of the high failure rates, rather than for any other reason. The keyboard works fine when it’s working—it just constantly fails due to dust.

Eric_WVGG 7y ago
Yup. I think anyone expecting a return to the old keyboard is in for a disappointment. More likely to me would be a new scissor with butterfly-style travel, an evolved butterfly, or something new altogether. Ming-Chi Kuo has a pretty good track record for iPhone predictions, but his Mac stuff is all over the place.
vanilla_nut 7y ago
Agreed. Though I think it's worth noting that a not-insignificant number of users loath the butterfly keyboard for other reasons, including: key feel, ease of orientation, general comfort. I am among those users and know a lot of others who feel similarly: typing on the butterfly keyboard feels akin to typing on concrete, with next to no real feedback and usually eventually causes pain in my fingertips. I also tend to make a lot of typos because I can never feel where my hands are on this keyboard, which is something I've never experienced on any other keyboard. I understand that there are things I'm doing personally (like typing too hard, most likely) that exacerbate these issues, but I've never had an issue with any other keyboard. The fact that Apple has managed to trigger these issues for an otherwise-fine keyboard user is concerning.
- buzzerbetrayed 7y ago
  Thank you for bringing this up. It isn’t something I usually hear people talk about. I loathe the feel of the butterfly keyboard. Even if it was 100% reliable, I would never buy a computer with one. I am, however, seriously considering upgrading my 2015 mbp with this 16 inch model if it has a different keyboard.
mikhailt 7y ago
It's not likely dust because if it was, there would be random key issues but most people report similar keys (E for an example). This redditor's research should explain why it is not likely the dust and why Apple is having a hard time pinpointing it on the first few tries; https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/bjw4js/macbook_pro_keyboard_failures_why_apples_dust/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/bjw4js/macbook_pr... I'd place my bet on the metal materials they use; which is why they've replaced it in the 4th retry.
- fingerlocks 7y ago
  For me it was dust under the Q key, not a common key. I don’t see why dust is more likely to land behind the most used keys either. Also that redditor concludes by saying the cause is unknown. I haven’t had any keyboard issues on my 2016 and 2018 models since I regularly started air spraying the keyboards.
- randomsearch 7y ago
  It’s dust.
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    Nope, not just dust. :) My keycaps came off because I don't hit them square on, and perhaps I'm a tad more aggressive than most (emacs + vim user). It put stress on the two C-clamps at the top of those keys and they weaken their grasp before ultimately breaking from wear. I'm on my third keyboard replacement, the exact same keys failing first (ERTSDF). 2017 Macbook Pro. I am familiar with the dust issues. And I yearn for the days where those were my only issues. Now I can't even type without having to put keycaps back on to keys.
    - randomsearch 7y ago
      Parent post said if it were dust, the keys would be randomly affected. Which AFAICT (after discussing with Apple store employees) is indeed the case. Some keys are slightly more prone to dust, eg the space bar because of its size, but any key can fail. Your concern is I’m sure valid, but orthogonal to the post I was replying to.

Eric_WVGG 7y ago

Yup. I think anyone expecting a return to the old keyboard is in for a disappointment. More likely to me would be a new scissor with butterfly-style travel, an evolved butterfly, or something new altogether. Ming-Chi Kuo has a pretty good track record for iPhone predictions, but his Mac stuff is all over the place.

vanilla_nut 7y ago

Agreed. Though I think it's worth noting that a not-insignificant number of users loath the butterfly keyboard for other reasons, including: key feel, ease of orientation, general comfort. I am among those users and know a lot of others who feel similarly: typing on the butterfly keyboard feels akin to typing on concrete, with next to no real feedback and usually eventually causes pain in my fingertips. I also tend to make a lot of typos because I can never feel where my hands are on this keyboard, which is something I've never experienced on any other keyboard. I understand that there are things I'm doing personally (like typing too hard, most likely) that exacerbate these issues, but I've never had an issue with any other keyboard. The fact that Apple has managed to trigger these issues for an otherwise-fine keyboard user is concerning.

buzzerbetrayed 7y ago
Thank you for bringing this up. It isn’t something I usually hear people talk about. I loathe the feel of the butterfly keyboard. Even if it was 100% reliable, I would never buy a computer with one. I am, however, seriously considering upgrading my 2015 mbp with this 16 inch model if it has a different keyboard.

mikhailt 7y ago

It's not likely dust because if it was, there would be random key issues but most people report similar keys (E for an example). This redditor's research should explain why it is not likely the dust and why Apple is having a hard time pinpointing it on the first few tries; https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/bjw4js/macbook_pro_keyboard_failures_why_apples_dust/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/bjw4js/macbook_pr... I'd place my bet on the metal materials they use; which is why they've replaced it in the 4th retry.

fingerlocks 7y ago
For me it was dust under the Q key, not a common key. I don’t see why dust is more likely to land behind the most used keys either. Also that redditor concludes by saying the cause is unknown. I haven’t had any keyboard issues on my 2016 and 2018 models since I regularly started air spraying the keyboards.
randomsearch 7y ago
It’s dust.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  Nope, not just dust. :) My keycaps came off because I don't hit them square on, and perhaps I'm a tad more aggressive than most (emacs + vim user). It put stress on the two C-clamps at the top of those keys and they weaken their grasp before ultimately breaking from wear. I'm on my third keyboard replacement, the exact same keys failing first (ERTSDF). 2017 Macbook Pro. I am familiar with the dust issues. And I yearn for the days where those were my only issues. Now I can't even type without having to put keycaps back on to keys.
  - randomsearch 7y ago
    Parent post said if it were dust, the keys would be randomly affected. Which AFAICT (after discussing with Apple store employees) is indeed the case. Some keys are slightly more prone to dust, eg the space bar because of its size, but any key can fail. Your concern is I’m sure valid, but orthogonal to the post I was replying to.