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This begs the question if UK/EU got a copy of all the US citizens ' fingerprints in return. It is possible to commit treason against your own country. Can some

This begs the question if UK/EU got a copy of all the US citizens ' fingerprints in return. It is possible to commit treason against your own country. Can someone commit treason against the EU? Is it a criminal offense?

digitalengineer 7y ago
Yes, when you’re a whistle blower (no joke). http://www.againstchildtrafficking.org/2018/06/roelie-post-the-life-of-a-whistle-blower-2/ http://www.againstchildtrafficking.org/2018/06/roelie-post-t...
billsmithaustin 7y ago
There isn’t a database of every US citizen’s fingerprints.
- patrickmcnamara 7y ago
  Nor is there in the EU. The only government that has my fingerprint is the US, despite being an Irishman.
  - vinay427 7y ago
    Right, but it's worth mentioning that unlike the US and perhaps Ireland, countries in the Schengen area are required to issue passports containing fingerprint data, though most (all?) do not have a centralized database of citizens' fingerprints. The Netherlands planned to create a centralized store but it seems to face public opposition.
    - swebs 7y ago
      I'm pretty sure modern USA passports require fingerprint data. They at least have the pokeball symbol signaling that it contains biometrics.
      - refurb 7y ago
        There is no requirement to provide fingerprints for a US passport. The only way I could see a US passport containing fingerprint data is if you were naturalized, but even then, it would require USCIS/USCBP to actually share that data with the State Department.
      - free652 7y ago
        Negative, US passports don't have fingerprints (in the chip).
      - vinay427 7y ago
        The biometrics symbol indicates some sort of biometric data, which in this case stores the pthograph and personal data displayed in the passport. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_passport#Biometric_passport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_passport#Biometr...
Normal_gaussian 7y ago
The title is misleading. The allegation is not that the UK authorities made a copy and gave it directly to the US authorities. The allegation is that the UK authorities made copies for its own and its contractors use. These contractors include US companies- IBM is one example. It really sounds like poor regard for security measures / lack of ownership and enforcement in the UK rather than anything malicious. It is also noted that several other member states have similar issues. It should also be noted - certain US authorities probably have or can get copies from various non-uk states and the UK. But that isn't what this incident is about.
- dangerface 7y ago
  > It really sounds like poor regard for security measures / lack of ownership and enforcement in the UK rather than anything malicious. The UK understand exactly how to do Passport security if they did it in a insecure way it was with malicious intent that gives them "plausible" deniability.
  - notimetorelax 7y ago
    UK is not a single person, what one government body does may be very different from the other.
- jobigoud 7y ago
  The title is also misleading in that it claims (unlike the linked tweet) that all EU citizens are impacted. In reality many EU citizens never had their fingerprints taken.
fmajid 7y ago
You can't commit treason against another country, since you never owed them allegiance in the first place.
- Thiez 7y ago
  And yet 'Assange' and 'treason' are often mentioned in the same sentence. Which is of course ridiculous for the reason you mention, but if I were in his shoes I would be very afraid they'd find a way to make those charges (or "lesser" charges that nevertheless result into you disappearing forever) stick.
  - justinclift 7y ago
    Co-incidental timing? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/death-penalty-capital-punishment-us-justice-department-resumes-executions https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/death-penalty-...
onetimemanytime 7y ago
Odds are that NSA already has them, but this makes it legal.
- rasz 7y ago
  Odds are Palantir lets ICE access them with one click.
bin0 7y ago
How could you commit treason against the EU? You don't owe allegiance to her, nor does any one. The EU was never as cohesive as, say, America (an entity to which she has been compared). Different nations are party to different treaties, see this graph: https://europedirectemn.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/treaties-graph.png https://europedirectemn.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/treaties... They very much pick and choose to which treaties they wish to agree, and retain sovereignty. There are more things than treaties that define a nation - the people, culture, history, etc. Or to grab the definition off google, "a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory." The EU does not really share those, to the extent of a proper nation.
HenryBemis 7y ago
The countries that run with with ESTA have already give these and much more info to USA's government a long time ago. Basically the countries volunteered all data beforehand to please the big boss (sorry I mean to say reduce bureaucracy and waiting times).

digitalengineer 7y ago

Yes, when you’re a whistle blower (no joke). http://www.againstchildtrafficking.org/2018/06/roelie-post-the-life-of-a-whistle-blower-2/ http://www.againstchildtrafficking.org/2018/06/roelie-post-t...

billsmithaustin 7y ago

There isn’t a database of every US citizen’s fingerprints.

patrickmcnamara 7y ago
Nor is there in the EU. The only government that has my fingerprint is the US, despite being an Irishman.
- vinay427 7y ago
  Right, but it's worth mentioning that unlike the US and perhaps Ireland, countries in the Schengen area are required to issue passports containing fingerprint data, though most (all?) do not have a centralized database of citizens' fingerprints. The Netherlands planned to create a centralized store but it seems to face public opposition.
  - swebs 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure modern USA passports require fingerprint data. They at least have the pokeball symbol signaling that it contains biometrics.
    - refurb 7y ago
      There is no requirement to provide fingerprints for a US passport. The only way I could see a US passport containing fingerprint data is if you were naturalized, but even then, it would require USCIS/USCBP to actually share that data with the State Department.
    - free652 7y ago
      Negative, US passports don't have fingerprints (in the chip).
    - vinay427 7y ago
      The biometrics symbol indicates some sort of biometric data, which in this case stores the pthograph and personal data displayed in the passport. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_passport#Biometric_passport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_passport#Biometr...

Normal_gaussian 7y ago

The title is misleading. The allegation is not that the UK authorities made a copy and gave it directly to the US authorities. The allegation is that the UK authorities made copies for its own and its contractors use. These contractors include US companies- IBM is one example. It really sounds like poor regard for security measures / lack of ownership and enforcement in the UK rather than anything malicious. It is also noted that several other member states have similar issues. It should also be noted - certain US authorities probably have or can get copies from various non-uk states and the UK. But that isn't what this incident is about.

dangerface 7y ago
> It really sounds like poor regard for security measures / lack of ownership and enforcement in the UK rather than anything malicious. The UK understand exactly how to do Passport security if they did it in a insecure way it was with malicious intent that gives them "plausible" deniability.
- notimetorelax 7y ago
  UK is not a single person, what one government body does may be very different from the other.
jobigoud 7y ago
The title is also misleading in that it claims (unlike the linked tweet) that all EU citizens are impacted. In reality many EU citizens never had their fingerprints taken.

fmajid 7y ago

You can't commit treason against another country, since you never owed them allegiance in the first place.

Thiez 7y ago
And yet 'Assange' and 'treason' are often mentioned in the same sentence. Which is of course ridiculous for the reason you mention, but if I were in his shoes I would be very afraid they'd find a way to make those charges (or "lesser" charges that nevertheless result into you disappearing forever) stick.
- justinclift 7y ago
  Co-incidental timing? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/death-penalty-capital-punishment-us-justice-department-resumes-executions https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/death-penalty-...

onetimemanytime 7y ago

Odds are that NSA already has them, but this makes it legal.

rasz 7y ago
Odds are Palantir lets ICE access them with one click.

bin0 7y ago

How could you commit treason against the EU? You don't owe allegiance to her, nor does any one. The EU was never as cohesive as, say, America (an entity to which she has been compared). Different nations are party to different treaties, see this graph: https://europedirectemn.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/treaties-graph.png https://europedirectemn.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/treaties... They very much pick and choose to which treaties they wish to agree, and retain sovereignty. There are more things than treaties that define a nation - the people, culture, history, etc. Or to grab the definition off google, "a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory." The EU does not really share those, to the extent of a proper nation.

HenryBemis 7y ago

The countries that run with with ESTA have already give these and much more info to USA's government a long time ago. Basically the countries volunteered all data beforehand to please the big boss (sorry I mean to say reduce bureaucracy and waiting times).