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Apple expected to adopt keyboard with scissor mechanism for 16-inch MacBook Pro
- hprotagonist 7y agoJust in time for me to start thinking about replacing my 2010 mbp!
- mirekrusin 7y agoIt still has iPhone slice, doesn't it? I'll wait with mine.
- hprotagonist 7y agoI’m not sure what that is.
- pazimzadeh 7y agoThe Touch Bar. Makes more sense to call it iPad Slice though.
- hprotagonist 7y agoI thought it was actually running watchOS. https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/28/13454052/apple-macbook-pro-touch-bar-apple-watch-features https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/28/13454052/apple-macbook-p...
- weiming 7y agoNow if only they could also get rid of the TouchBar. Most frustrating "feature" ever as I keep accidentally pressing some parts of it while resting my hands or typing. Not to mention that I don't look down at the keyboard area as I type. Keep the TouchID button, get rid of the rest, just like the current Airs.
- everdrive 7y ago"No, I don't want to enable Siri. I never want to enable Siri. I wish I could modify the Touch Bar."
- zeitg3ist 7y agoYou can remove Siri from the touch bar, though!
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- everdrive 7y agoI had no idea. The option didn't originally show up in System preferences until I first modified the touch bar preferences via an Apps "view" menu. No idea why this is, but thanks for sending me looking.
- st3fan 7y agoIf you disable Siri in the System Preferences, it will also not show up in the TouchBar.
- everdrive 7y agoThis one didn't work for me either. Siri had been disabled for quite a while. But, I'm on a work laptop, so perhaps IT caused the problem in the first place.
- bitwize 7y agoGo to System Preferences / Extensions / Touch Bar and say "Customize Control Strip...". You will be presented a panel of options for things to drag to your Touch Bar, and your current Touch Bar icons will "wiggle". Use the mouse to drag the Siri icon from the Touch Bar to the panel (yes, this is a thing, try it!) and presto -- you've removed Siri from the Touch Bar.
- schpaencoder 7y agoPerhaps they aim to get rid of the keyboard completely, replacing it with a haptic feedback capable device and a glass plate with the keys inscribed?
- visarga 7y agoThat would have all the pleasures of typing on a table, hitting your fingertips on a hard surface. Try it.
- ilikehurdles 7y agoI already have a touch bar so I know what it's like.
- rhinoceraptor 7y agoIt's like a keyboard, except flakier and with improved accidental inputs!
- visarga 7y agoIt's not like a keyboard. It's like hitting something hard that hurts your fingertips. And you can't compare it to a phone either, because on a phone you type one-handed. The two-hand keyboard typing experience uses much more kinetic energy.
- mikhailt 7y agoOr you know, every smartphone and tablets with a hard glass cover touchscreen?
- rhinoceraptor 7y agoObviously that is not a good enough solution for people who type a lot, or they wouldn't need keyboard cases for the iPad.
- 7y ago
- kemar 7y agoNow drop that f-word TouchBar and I'd buy a MacBook again!
- iicc 7y agoButterfly Keyboard Mechanism Illustration - https://theengineerscafe.com/butterfly-keyboard/ https://theengineerscafe.com/butterfly-keyboard/
- weiming 7y agoFor anyone curious to compare, an animation of a mechanical keyboard switch: https://www.cherrymx.de/en/mx-original/mx-brown.html#techSpecs https://www.cherrymx.de/en/mx-original/mx-brown.html#techSpe... Click on top of the page for other switch types.
- brianpgordon 7y agoGotta flex my (amazing) Topre keyboard, which is "mechanical" as well but works on a totally different capacitive touch mechanism: https://i.imgur.com/SnfIDbe.jpg https://i.imgur.com/SnfIDbe.jpg
- pault 7y agoThe deskthority wiki is by far the greatest collection of keyboard lore in the world: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Main_Page https://deskthority.net/wiki/Main_Page
- hrktb 7y agoThat ship has long long sailed, but it's so weird talking about the mechanical design of the different keyboard switches to call one of the keyboard a 'mechanical keyboard'
- Corrado 7y agoYou know, I'm not opposed to the butterfly mechanism itself. I want my keys to be stable and accurate and it looks like this is better than the old scissor type. However, I would like a nice feel when typing and don't want a piece of dust to disable my keyboard. Can't the butterfly mechanism satisfy those requirements as well?
- theonemind 7y agoWith RSI, I don’t want more key travel.
- Cthulhu_ 7y agoPersonally I have one of their separate wireless keyboards, more travel than the MBP itself has but still low profile (lower than the Mac itself).
- mikhailt 7y agoKey travel isn't the single cause for RSI. I don't have RSI pain with a mechanical keyboard with huge key travel for an example. For me, key travel isn't the issue, it's the bottoming out impact. A lot of people are hitting the bottom really hard, which actually increase the chances of RSI. My mechanical keyboard also has a soft bottom out so that I don't actually have to hit anything, just gentle tap and it's all good. I can't actually learn to tap gentle with low key travel like Apple's keyboards. Strangely, I don't seem to have the same issue on the iPad's smart keyboard. Apple keyboards are the worst for me with RSI, it hits bottom hard and it's too thin.
- randomsearch 7y agoMaybe confirm that butterfly mechanism, for all its faults, limits RSI
- flocial 7y agoI actually got used to the 2018 MBA butterfly despite my initial dislike and hesitation. That being said, I'm grateful for all the lobbying to improve butterfly keyboards because I got a much improved version with a replacement program in case one of these horrific ghost finger bugs or malfunctions occur. I definitely would not have bought this MBA if it had the same butterfly keyboard as a MacBook or pre 2017 MacBook Pro. I just hope that the next incarnation of scissors keyboards or whatever mechanism they adopt doesn't go through another multi-year cycle of defective hardware, denials and silent upgrades. I wonder if this move will trigger people who prefer butterfly keyboards or only know butterfly keyboards if and when it gets released.
- chrischen 7y agoThey’re most likely getting rid of it (if they do) because of the high failure rates, rather than for any other reason. The keyboard works fine when it’s working—it just constantly fails due to dust.
- Eric_WVGG 7y agoYup. I think anyone expecting a return to the old keyboard is in for a disappointment. More likely to me would be a new scissor with butterfly-style travel, an evolved butterfly, or something new altogether. Ming-Chi Kuo has a pretty good track record for iPhone predictions, but his Mac stuff is all over the place.
- vanilla_nut 7y agoAgreed. Though I think it's worth noting that a not-insignificant number of users loath the butterfly keyboard for other reasons, including: key feel, ease of orientation, general comfort. I am among those users and know a lot of others who feel similarly: typing on the butterfly keyboard feels akin to typing on concrete, with next to no real feedback and usually eventually causes pain in my fingertips. I also tend to make a lot of typos because I can never feel where my hands are on this keyboard, which is something I've never experienced on any other keyboard. I understand that there are things I'm doing personally (like typing too hard, most likely) that exacerbate these issues, but I've never had an issue with any other keyboard. The fact that Apple has managed to trigger these issues for an otherwise-fine keyboard user is concerning.
- buzzerbetrayed 7y agoThank you for bringing this up. It isn’t something I usually hear people talk about. I loathe the feel of the butterfly keyboard. Even if it was 100% reliable, I would never buy a computer with one. I am, however, seriously considering upgrading my 2015 mbp with this 16 inch model if it has a different keyboard.
- mikhailt 7y agoIt's not likely dust because if it was, there would be random key issues but most people report similar keys (E for an example). This redditor's research should explain why it is not likely the dust and why Apple is having a hard time pinpointing it on the first few tries; https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/bjw4js/macbook_pro_keyboard_failures_why_apples_dust/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/bjw4js/macbook_pr... I'd place my bet on the metal materials they use; which is why they've replaced it in the 4th retry.
- Gravityloss 7y agoReminds me of the VAG TSI problems - people avoid VW, Audi, Skoda and Seat gasoline cars with those engines from around 2007 to 2013 (don't remember the exact years).
- cosmosa 7y agowhat is a scissor mechanism?
- guessmyname 7y agoI searched “wiki keyboard scissor mechanism” on Google [1] and found the answer [2]. And since you didn’t know, you may find this comparison very helpful [3]. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=wiki+keyboard+scissor+mechanism https://www.google.com/search?q=wiki+keyboard+scissor+mechan... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Scissor-switch_keyboard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Scissor-sw... [3] https://www.quora.com/What-precisely-is-a-butterfly-keyboard-on-a-MacBook https://www.quora.com/What-precisely-is-a-butterfly-keyboard...
- Simulacra 7y agoThe words “butterfly” and “die” never came together in my lexicon until I encountered the butterfly keyboard
- purplezooey 7y agoIf they made a cherry mx notebook it would sell like gangbusters despite probably being heavier and thicker
- knd775 7y agoHave you seen actual mx switches? I've got a handful on my desk here. Including the stems, they are ticker than my entire laptop by themselves. They just came out with "low-profile" switches, but they're still hardly thin at all. I really doubt many people would buy a laptop at least 3x the thickness of the current models. (By the way, Cherry makes scratchy and cheap feeling switches. The low profile ones are even worse.)
- nkristoffersen 7y agohttps://www.theverge.com/2015/1/5/7495073/msi-mechanical-keyboard-gt80-titan-laptop-ces https://www.theverge.com/2015/1/5/7495073/msi-mechanical-key... Just to give you a sense of what you're asking for.
- duxup 7y agoI used to carry a separate keyboard with my laptop for some classes I was talking....I would do that again rather than use the monstrosity you linked to.
- drudru11 7y agoToo little, too late. Already switched off of Apple.
- lambdasquirrel 7y agoCan we get MagSafe back too? The thinness thing went way too far.
- AWildC182 7y agoPreferably without the silicone wiring that fails constantly? I've had to fix so many of those crappy power cables...
- slavik81 7y agoThe end that plugs into the wall is a detachable cable, which is nice. Unfortunately, the other cable is hardwired to the charger brick. The charger is $95 (CAD) and I've had to replace it twice solely due to cable damage. What a waste.
- randomsearch 7y agoMagSafe caused fires.
- dbcurtis 7y agoHow so? What is the mechanism?
- randomsearch 7y agoDon’t know why I got downvoted. This happened a lot in the 00s, including to someone I know. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/arstechnica.com/gadgets/2009/05/apple-sued-over-reputed-fire-hazard-of-magsafe-power-adapter/%3famp=1 https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/arstechnica.com/gadgets/2009/...
- willio58 7y agoThis is my first time hearing of this.
- brianpgordon 7y ago> Negative public opinion, multiple lawsuits, and ongoing issues with all keyboards in Mac notebooks released since 2015 have led Apple to launch a keyboard repair program that applies to all Macs with a butterfly keyboard, including 2019 models. Kind of glossing over the rather important detail that Apple's keyboard repair program entitles you to an exact replacement of the same broken-ass keyboard design that caused your issue in the first place. If I remember correctly, they won't even upgrade you to their later-generation butterfly mechanism; if you go in with a membrane-less 1st-generation keyboard, that's what you get as a replacement.
- CDSlice 7y agoI think that because the keyboard is connected to the logic board it is literally impossible for Apple to give you a newer keyboard without also giving you a logic board for a later gen pro which won't work with the later gen MacBook. That's also (part of) the reason why repairs are so expensive, most of the parts are connected into a few large chunks that have to be replaced all at once.
- randomsearch 7y agoUnless they redesigned the part, to fix the problem, which is what they should do.
- augstein 7y agoThey should not have constructed it this way in the first place. For how long will they replace those keyboards for free?
- sq_ 7y agoThey're covered for four years after first retail sale from Apple [0]. [0] https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-n...
- dpau 7y agoCompletely Apple's own fault, too. A rating of only 1 on iFixit's "Laptop Repairability Scores": "The top case assembly, including the keyboard, battery, speakers, and Touch Bar, is glued together—making all those components impractical to replace separately." https://www.ifixit.com/laptop-repairability https://www.ifixit.com/laptop-repairability
- SamReidHughes 7y agoThe butterfly mechanism is fine, as a class of mechanism, it's Apple's implementation which pushes the limits of sound engineering. It's perfectly possible for that kind of keyswitch to have large travel and a good actuation threshold.
- randomsearch 7y agoThe problem is that dust gets trapped underneath it.
- florin_g 7y agoCould not Apple place the touchbar between touchpad and keyboard and leave the function keys alone? That might please both camps and rid of controversy.
- florin_g 7y agoCould not Apple place the touchbar between touchpad and keyboard and leave the function keys alone? That might please both camps and rid of controversy.
- freehunter 7y agoRight where you might rest your wrists while typing?
- florin_g 7y agoNot really. Wrists never rest between touchpad and keyboard.
- Animats 7y agoSlow news day?
- secfirstmd 7y agoI really wish Apple would stop messing around and give me a touch screen MacBook.
- hibbelig 7y agoI use Karabiner Elements to allow me to press and hold space while hitting 1234567890-= to get F1 through F12. I find this to be an acceptable workaround.