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Here's the first coal power plant I found on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_station#/media/File:Belchatow-elektrownia.jpg https://e

by mrob 7y ago

Here's the first coal power plant I found on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_station#/media/File:Belchatow-elektrownia.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_station#/med... Exact same evaporative cooling towers as used in nuclear power plants, which is what you'd expect seeing as they use the same steam turbines to drive their generators. And a diagram of a generic coal power plant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coal_fired_power_plant_diagram.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coal_fired_power_plant_di... Again, water cooled.

gonzo 7y ago
Nope. The towers are to reduce water usage and lower the temperature of the water before it is returned to the environment. https://allthingsnuclear.org/dlochbaum/shh-secrets-of-the-cooling-towers https://allthingsnuclear.org/dlochbaum/shh-secrets-of-the-co... They cool the water, not the plant.
- benj111 7y ago
  Ars claimed that coal power stations are air cooled, your parent is refuting that by pointing out the cooling towers. Cooling towers cool water because it was heated up in some way, possibly by cooling the power plant.
  - ars 7y ago
    He's right, they use the tower to pre-cool the water before using river water to cool it even more. Coal plants typically only have the tower, and don't use river water.
masklinn 7y ago
FWIW plants with cooler towers are not really affected by the heat wave, as an other comment notes the issue is for plants next to intermediate bodies of water (in France that's mostly plants on the Rhone which is a pretty large river): since they were next to a pretty big body of water they were designed without cooling towers, but the combination of warming & body of water not being quite big enough it's possible for the water flow & temperatures to adversely effect cooling and thus require throttling.
ars 7y ago
From the article you linked: "Waste heat from the condenser is transferred either to the air, or sometimes to a cooling pond, lake or river." Coal plants can certainly use ponds to cool, but air cooling works just fine for them. Unlike Nuclear Coal can eject most of its heat, as exhaust from burning the coal, into the air. I have to add, it was a little dishonest of you to link to the one photo with cooling towers, and not to all the other ones that don't have them.
- mrob 7y ago
  >it was a little dishonest of you to link to the one photo with cooling towers It's the first picture on the page "Fossil fuel power station", which is the redirect for "coal power plant". The second photograph is Currant Creek Power Plant, which is a relatively modern (2005) gas-fired plant, which does indeed use air cooling. The third photograph is the decommissioned coal-fired Carbon Power Plant. Although not clear from the photo, this uses water cooling. The cooling towers are visible here: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705396191/New-mercury-standards-could-speed-up-closure-of-Utah-power-plant.html https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705396191/New-mercury-st... The fourth photograph is the decommissioned coal-fired Mohave Power Station. This also uses water cooling, although its cooling towers are shorter and wider than the classic hyperboloid design. Fifth is the active Taichung Power Plant, coal-fired, also water cooled according to its Wikipedia page. 100% of the photographs of coal power plants on the page reached by searching Wikipedia for "coal power plant" show water-cooled plants. How is my example dishonest?
  - ars 7y ago
    I see the problem. We are confusing cooling towers with river water cooling, also called "once-through cooling". Cooling towers are specifically when you don't use river water for cooling. Your first photo has a large lake in front of it, so clearly they will use that, but the rest don't, they only have the towers. Nuclear plants almost always use once-through cooling or cooling ponds, but coal plants typically don't, and are unaffected by the heat limits (which are environmental for fish, not technical for power generation). Edit: Notice how in the diagram you linked there is a river for cooling, but there is no tower? Coal plants will have one or the other, but nuclear uses both, and that's because most of the waste heat from coal goes up the chimney.

by mrob 7y ago

gonzo 7y ago

Nope. The towers are to reduce water usage and lower the temperature of the water before it is returned to the environment. https://allthingsnuclear.org/dlochbaum/shh-secrets-of-the-cooling-towers https://allthingsnuclear.org/dlochbaum/shh-secrets-of-the-co... They cool the water, not the plant.

benj111 7y ago
Ars claimed that coal power stations are air cooled, your parent is refuting that by pointing out the cooling towers. Cooling towers cool water because it was heated up in some way, possibly by cooling the power plant.
- ars 7y ago
  He's right, they use the tower to pre-cool the water before using river water to cool it even more. Coal plants typically only have the tower, and don't use river water.

masklinn 7y ago

FWIW plants with cooler towers are not really affected by the heat wave, as an other comment notes the issue is for plants next to intermediate bodies of water (in France that's mostly plants on the Rhone which is a pretty large river): since they were next to a pretty big body of water they were designed without cooling towers, but the combination of warming & body of water not being quite big enough it's possible for the water flow & temperatures to adversely effect cooling and thus require throttling.

ars 7y ago

From the article you linked: "Waste heat from the condenser is transferred either to the air, or sometimes to a cooling pond, lake or river." Coal plants can certainly use ponds to cool, but air cooling works just fine for them. Unlike Nuclear Coal can eject most of its heat, as exhaust from burning the coal, into the air. I have to add, it was a little dishonest of you to link to the one photo with cooling towers, and not to all the other ones that don't have them.

mrob 7y ago
>it was a little dishonest of you to link to the one photo with cooling towers It's the first picture on the page "Fossil fuel power station", which is the redirect for "coal power plant". The second photograph is Currant Creek Power Plant, which is a relatively modern (2005) gas-fired plant, which does indeed use air cooling. The third photograph is the decommissioned coal-fired Carbon Power Plant. Although not clear from the photo, this uses water cooling. The cooling towers are visible here: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705396191/New-mercury-standards-could-speed-up-closure-of-Utah-power-plant.html https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705396191/New-mercury-st... The fourth photograph is the decommissioned coal-fired Mohave Power Station. This also uses water cooling, although its cooling towers are shorter and wider than the classic hyperboloid design. Fifth is the active Taichung Power Plant, coal-fired, also water cooled according to its Wikipedia page. 100% of the photographs of coal power plants on the page reached by searching Wikipedia for "coal power plant" show water-cooled plants. How is my example dishonest?
- ars 7y ago
  I see the problem. We are confusing cooling towers with river water cooling, also called "once-through cooling". Cooling towers are specifically when you don't use river water for cooling. Your first photo has a large lake in front of it, so clearly they will use that, but the rest don't, they only have the towers. Nuclear plants almost always use once-through cooling or cooling ponds, but coal plants typically don't, and are unaffected by the heat limits (which are environmental for fish, not technical for power generation). Edit: Notice how in the diagram you linked there is a river for cooling, but there is no tower? Coal plants will have one or the other, but nuclear uses both, and that's because most of the waste heat from coal goes up the chimney.