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Flyover suburbanite here: I never understood travel culture, but I've seen it contribute to depression in my friends and neighbors because they somehow have bee

Flyover suburbanite here: I never understood travel culture, but I've seen it contribute to depression in my friends and neighbors because they somehow have been convinced that a meaningful life requires global travel, but find it difficult with mortgages and children. I view travel culture as very toxic as a result. "I just want to see the world" I hear, a yearning for an experience that, when pursued, might temporarily stifle midlife crises but ruins marriages just as often. I feel so deeply sad for people who don't realize that everything they need is in front of them.

siphon22 7y ago
You are right. People typically won't know how good they have it until they are separated from it, either temporarily or permanently.
modernthumb 7y ago
I can see your point but as a passportless 21 year old I can't help but feel I'm missing out on something. I've never really experienced anything outside of the US. It's such an exciting prospect to visit somewhere exotic that looks nothing like the place I've always known, has completely different food, language, animals. Maybe the joy is temporary but it's still joy and I hope if I ever get the chance to travel it's an experience that I'll be able to look back fondly on, or worst case use the knowledge to reflect and come to a conclusion such as yourself.
- vinceguidry 7y ago
  Don't let anyone or anything stop you from traveling. I once dropped everything and took a 2 month long trip to Colombia. I wanted somewhere close, out of the country, non-Anglo, not in the Caribbean or Central America, which I judged to be too dangerous / touristy at the time. Colombia was safe and interesting. I took Spanish classes and bounced around different cities for a few months. In the beginning it was about exploration and at the end it was about discovering my priorities in life. The genesis of the trip came about when I started talking to someone at a language school about taking language classes. He started asking me why, then said, "just go there. You'll never get a better chance than when you're young." He was 100% right.
- kd5bjo 7y ago
  As someone who has travelled some, the tragedy of the modern tourism industry is that it has homogenized so many places that it’s hard to tell them apart. I first noticed it when I took a Caribbean cruise a decade ago. The port areas are dominated by tourist culture instead of local culture, and you’re hard-pressed to tell one from another. Here in Iceland(1), shops downtown are regularly being replaced by copies of the same gift shop you’ll find everywhere in the world, and there is active discussion about coming up with “tourist-friendly” English names for landmarks because the Icelandic ones that have been used for hundreds of years aren’t enticing enough. The tourism industry has figured out how to give people a good show, but it’s ultimately a shallow experience. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing: like everything else, travel needs welcoming, entry-level experiences. The trouble comes when it gets so prevalent that it starts to warp and destroy the local culture in order to sell more spectacle. (1) Full disclosure: I first came here as a tourist, and would never have moved here without that initial exposure, so I can’t completely comdemn the tourism industry.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    > And that’s not necessarily a bad thing: like everything else, travel needs welcoming, entry-level experiences. The trouble comes when it gets so prevalent that it starts to warp and destroy the local culture in order to sell more spectacle. Kind of like software development these days, on the web in particular - the "entry-level experience" makes most money, so over time it starts to dominate and push out everything else.
- lottin 7y ago
  Being passportless in USA isn't a big deal, the USA being such a large country. You can still travel large distances and see many different places. Perhaps it's not exotic enough for some though.
- thejohnconway 7y ago
  Gawd I don't think I've ever seen something as silly on HN as 'travel depresses you'. You are missing out on something, you should do it, and it wont depress you. Sure there are people who seem to travel with the intent impress people, but traveling is a character-building in a way that everyone should experience. Its not the kind of spirit-quest that some people make it out to be, but it will give you interesting stuff to think out for years.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  I recommend if you feel you're missing out is to travel to parts of the USA that you're not familiar with. If you're a city-folk, visit a rural agriculture town. If you're from a more rural area, visit a heavily populated region like NYC. Visit Chicago. St Lois. Baton Rouge. Austin. Phoenix. Portland. San Francisco. Buffalo. Detroit. Etc.
- notyourday 7y ago
  You are missing it. Not because you are not travelling, but because you are 21 with no real responsibilities and you are not using that time frivolously. Get a passport, save $5-10k and go slumming in Europe for 6 months. Backpack for clothes. Laptop. Camera. Condoms. If you decide you don't like it in three-four weeks, come back. Otherwise spend time there stretching your money as long as you can until your budget runs out.
speedplane 7y ago
> I never understood travel culture, but I've seen it contribute to depression in my friends and neighbors because they somehow have been convinced that a meaningful life requires global travel ... I view travel culture as very toxic Sure, traveling just to achieve certain bragging rights is superficial and silly, but that doesn't mean travel itself isn't valuable. Similarly, reading books just to say you've read the most or the hardest is silly, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't read. Traveling allows you to viscerally see how people live and value things differently from you. There is much to be gained from it if you do it for the right reasons.
- aikinai 7y ago
  Very very few people “viscerally see how people live and value things differently” when they travel. And they can’t without an order of magnitude more time and money to spend on that travel. Actually living in a different place will certainly do that, but “travel” almost never will.
  - speedplane 7y ago
    > Very very few people “viscerally see how people live and value things differently” when they travel. ... Actually living in a different place will certainly do that, but “travel” almost never will. Take one extreme case: a typical college grad doing a euro-trip to 10 countries in 14 days. They will certainly not be able to experience those cultures deeply, but compare that person to someone who never went to Europe, never saw their respect for the past, train travel, food cultures, and the high value they place on vacation. Even consider those young travelers that mostly stay within the confines of their hostel and their group activities, or in a national bar where things appear familiar and comfortable: they are still better off than if they just stayed home and had not seen any of it. Certainly, 10 days of travel is not much, but it's a lot more than 0 days. For some, those 10 days may be truly meaningful and eye-opening, for others, a familiar party with different scenery. Traveling is generally uncomfortable and different, and the experience can add something to even the most shallow traveler. (caveat: It happens, although uncommon, that travel can be a detriment. Particularly, when someone goes to a country that is poorer than theirs, and attributes their lack of development to some genetic or racist defect. While this is possible, I do think it's exceedingly rare. When one sees how other people live up close, it's natural to look for the patterns and similarities rather than come up with differences.)

siphon22 7y ago

You are right. People typically won't know how good they have it until they are separated from it, either temporarily or permanently.

modernthumb 7y ago

I can see your point but as a passportless 21 year old I can't help but feel I'm missing out on something. I've never really experienced anything outside of the US. It's such an exciting prospect to visit somewhere exotic that looks nothing like the place I've always known, has completely different food, language, animals. Maybe the joy is temporary but it's still joy and I hope if I ever get the chance to travel it's an experience that I'll be able to look back fondly on, or worst case use the knowledge to reflect and come to a conclusion such as yourself.

vinceguidry 7y ago
Don't let anyone or anything stop you from traveling. I once dropped everything and took a 2 month long trip to Colombia. I wanted somewhere close, out of the country, non-Anglo, not in the Caribbean or Central America, which I judged to be too dangerous / touristy at the time. Colombia was safe and interesting. I took Spanish classes and bounced around different cities for a few months. In the beginning it was about exploration and at the end it was about discovering my priorities in life. The genesis of the trip came about when I started talking to someone at a language school about taking language classes. He started asking me why, then said, "just go there. You'll never get a better chance than when you're young." He was 100% right.
kd5bjo 7y ago
As someone who has travelled some, the tragedy of the modern tourism industry is that it has homogenized so many places that it’s hard to tell them apart. I first noticed it when I took a Caribbean cruise a decade ago. The port areas are dominated by tourist culture instead of local culture, and you’re hard-pressed to tell one from another. Here in Iceland(1), shops downtown are regularly being replaced by copies of the same gift shop you’ll find everywhere in the world, and there is active discussion about coming up with “tourist-friendly” English names for landmarks because the Icelandic ones that have been used for hundreds of years aren’t enticing enough. The tourism industry has figured out how to give people a good show, but it’s ultimately a shallow experience. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing: like everything else, travel needs welcoming, entry-level experiences. The trouble comes when it gets so prevalent that it starts to warp and destroy the local culture in order to sell more spectacle. (1) Full disclosure: I first came here as a tourist, and would never have moved here without that initial exposure, so I can’t completely comdemn the tourism industry.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > And that’s not necessarily a bad thing: like everything else, travel needs welcoming, entry-level experiences. The trouble comes when it gets so prevalent that it starts to warp and destroy the local culture in order to sell more spectacle. Kind of like software development these days, on the web in particular - the "entry-level experience" makes most money, so over time it starts to dominate and push out everything else.
lottin 7y ago
Being passportless in USA isn't a big deal, the USA being such a large country. You can still travel large distances and see many different places. Perhaps it's not exotic enough for some though.
thejohnconway 7y ago
Gawd I don't think I've ever seen something as silly on HN as 'travel depresses you'. You are missing out on something, you should do it, and it wont depress you. Sure there are people who seem to travel with the intent impress people, but traveling is a character-building in a way that everyone should experience. Its not the kind of spirit-quest that some people make it out to be, but it will give you interesting stuff to think out for years.
SolaceQuantum 7y ago
I recommend if you feel you're missing out is to travel to parts of the USA that you're not familiar with. If you're a city-folk, visit a rural agriculture town. If you're from a more rural area, visit a heavily populated region like NYC. Visit Chicago. St Lois. Baton Rouge. Austin. Phoenix. Portland. San Francisco. Buffalo. Detroit. Etc.
notyourday 7y ago
You are missing it. Not because you are not travelling, but because you are 21 with no real responsibilities and you are not using that time frivolously. Get a passport, save $5-10k and go slumming in Europe for 6 months. Backpack for clothes. Laptop. Camera. Condoms. If you decide you don't like it in three-four weeks, come back. Otherwise spend time there stretching your money as long as you can until your budget runs out.

speedplane 7y ago

> I never understood travel culture, but I've seen it contribute to depression in my friends and neighbors because they somehow have been convinced that a meaningful life requires global travel ... I view travel culture as very toxic Sure, traveling just to achieve certain bragging rights is superficial and silly, but that doesn't mean travel itself isn't valuable. Similarly, reading books just to say you've read the most or the hardest is silly, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't read. Traveling allows you to viscerally see how people live and value things differently from you. There is much to be gained from it if you do it for the right reasons.

aikinai 7y ago
Very very few people “viscerally see how people live and value things differently” when they travel. And they can’t without an order of magnitude more time and money to spend on that travel. Actually living in a different place will certainly do that, but “travel” almost never will.
- speedplane 7y ago
  > Very very few people “viscerally see how people live and value things differently” when they travel. ... Actually living in a different place will certainly do that, but “travel” almost never will. Take one extreme case: a typical college grad doing a euro-trip to 10 countries in 14 days. They will certainly not be able to experience those cultures deeply, but compare that person to someone who never went to Europe, never saw their respect for the past, train travel, food cultures, and the high value they place on vacation. Even consider those young travelers that mostly stay within the confines of their hostel and their group activities, or in a national bar where things appear familiar and comfortable: they are still better off than if they just stayed home and had not seen any of it. Certainly, 10 days of travel is not much, but it's a lot more than 0 days. For some, those 10 days may be truly meaningful and eye-opening, for others, a familiar party with different scenery. Traveling is generally uncomfortable and different, and the experience can add something to even the most shallow traveler. (caveat: It happens, although uncommon, that travel can be a detriment. Particularly, when someone goes to a country that is poorer than theirs, and attributes their lack of development to some genetic or racist defect. While this is possible, I do think it's exceedingly rare. When one sees how other people live up close, it's natural to look for the patterns and similarities rather than come up with differences.)