4 ms·

I've been pretty bummed on "tech" lately because software is such a shit show so this was impressive and inspiring, both the machines and the seeming quality an

by kev009 7y ago

I've been pretty bummed on "tech" lately because software is such a shit show so this was impressive and inspiring, both the machines and the seeming quality and focus of the employees.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago
Yeah, everybody is rooting for advancements in hardware/mechanical until they see the salaries this field pays. I'm surprised the field is advancing at all seeing app kiddies can walk home with more $.
- ratsmack 7y ago
  This was my industry for 40 years and I got to watch it die.
- mysterypie 7y ago
  You made me curious. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (bls.gov): - Metal and Plastic Machine Workers make $17.35 per hour or $36,080 per year - Machinists and Tool and Die Makers make $21.61 per hour or $44,950 per year - Software Developers make $50.77 per hour or $105,590 per year Employees at a top notch company like Kern Microtechnik probably make more than the machine worker average aboves, but then software developers at FAANG make more than the developer average as well. It's sometimes astonishing that there isn't more correlation between skill and craftsmanship and how much you get paid.
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    The imbalance is not just in take-home salaries but in the barrier of entry as well. You can't just get into the field by being a self-taught mechanical or electrical engineer without investing the time and $ in attending a proper university but you can call yourself a software "engineer" after a boot camp and start making $. The only advantage of these fields though is that you can (still) find work in your 60's as a gray beard while if you're in web dev, hopefully, you have moved far enough up the ladder or made fuck you money until your 60's because I don't expect to see many graybeards doing React in the future.
  - ofrzeta 7y ago
    In Germany (home of Kern microtechnik) the gap isn't that huge. Yearly avg. salary of a software developer is around 70k while a skilled machinist can make around 50k.
    - legulere 7y ago
      Average software developer pay isn’t 70k in Germany. It’s way lower.
  - frankharv 7y ago
    As a machinist of 35 years I can say your pay scale is WAY off. Just look jobs on Indeed.Com. Trust Me, A Tool and Die Maker makes much much more than you quoted. Problem is everybody wants to learn whizbang instead of getting a foundation of conventional machinery. What cracks me up is I see CNC programmer jobs paying less than Tool and Die makers when programming requires computer knowledge. The real problem with the trade is Vo-Tech is dead and kids can't even swing wrenches these days, let alone the strong mental math skill required.
    - maxerickson 7y ago
      BLS numbers are higher than other poster says for Tool and Die makers, but less than you imply. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes514111.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes514111.htm It's probably a thing where there's people BLS considers tool and die makers that you aren't roping into your expectations.
    - thrwayxyz 7y ago
      Could you give hard numbers for what you would consider reasonable pay?
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        I know a tool-and-die maker that works on high volume plastic injection molds that makes a comfortable multiple of my salary. This is very precious knowledge and having it can save a company many millions of dollars in re-tooling and discarded product.
        thrwayxyz 7y ago
        A number would be nice.
taneq 7y ago
The rest of the world outside web/cloud is still trucking along quite nicely and doing a ton of exciting stuff. :) Even web stuff has a lot of good things going on, it's just that there's a ton of derivative fluff along with it (as always when you're the hot new thing).
dingoegret 7y ago
Because in software there is no sense of craftsmanship. Design or principles or abstraction are dirty words. Just get it done attitude pervades programmers.

by kev009 7y ago

I've been pretty bummed on "tech" lately because software is such a shit show so this was impressive and inspiring, both the machines and the seeming quality and focus of the employees.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago

Yeah, everybody is rooting for advancements in hardware/mechanical until they see the salaries this field pays. I'm surprised the field is advancing at all seeing app kiddies can walk home with more $.

ratsmack 7y ago
This was my industry for 40 years and I got to watch it die.
mysterypie 7y ago
You made me curious. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (bls.gov): - Metal and Plastic Machine Workers make $17.35 per hour or $36,080 per year - Machinists and Tool and Die Makers make $21.61 per hour or $44,950 per year - Software Developers make $50.77 per hour or $105,590 per year Employees at a top notch company like Kern Microtechnik probably make more than the machine worker average aboves, but then software developers at FAANG make more than the developer average as well. It's sometimes astonishing that there isn't more correlation between skill and craftsmanship and how much you get paid.
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  The imbalance is not just in take-home salaries but in the barrier of entry as well. You can't just get into the field by being a self-taught mechanical or electrical engineer without investing the time and $ in attending a proper university but you can call yourself a software "engineer" after a boot camp and start making $. The only advantage of these fields though is that you can (still) find work in your 60's as a gray beard while if you're in web dev, hopefully, you have moved far enough up the ladder or made fuck you money until your 60's because I don't expect to see many graybeards doing React in the future.
- ofrzeta 7y ago
  In Germany (home of Kern microtechnik) the gap isn't that huge. Yearly avg. salary of a software developer is around 70k while a skilled machinist can make around 50k.
  - legulere 7y ago
    Average software developer pay isn’t 70k in Germany. It’s way lower.
- frankharv 7y ago
  As a machinist of 35 years I can say your pay scale is WAY off. Just look jobs on Indeed.Com. Trust Me, A Tool and Die Maker makes much much more than you quoted. Problem is everybody wants to learn whizbang instead of getting a foundation of conventional machinery. What cracks me up is I see CNC programmer jobs paying less than Tool and Die makers when programming requires computer knowledge. The real problem with the trade is Vo-Tech is dead and kids can't even swing wrenches these days, let alone the strong mental math skill required.
  - maxerickson 7y ago
    BLS numbers are higher than other poster says for Tool and Die makers, but less than you imply. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes514111.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes514111.htm It's probably a thing where there's people BLS considers tool and die makers that you aren't roping into your expectations.
  - thrwayxyz 7y ago
    Could you give hard numbers for what you would consider reasonable pay?
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      I know a tool-and-die maker that works on high volume plastic injection molds that makes a comfortable multiple of my salary. This is very precious knowledge and having it can save a company many millions of dollars in re-tooling and discarded product.
      - thrwayxyz 7y ago
        A number would be nice.

taneq 7y ago

The rest of the world outside web/cloud is still trucking along quite nicely and doing a ton of exciting stuff. :) Even web stuff has a lot of good things going on, it's just that there's a ton of derivative fluff along with it (as always when you're the hot new thing).

dingoegret 7y ago

Because in software there is no sense of craftsmanship. Design or principles or abstraction are dirty words. Just get it done attitude pervades programmers.