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Why are you referring to Crimea as a victim? Their desire to leave the Ukraine has been well-documented since the beginning. See this amusing article from 1994

Why are you referring to Crimea as a victim? Their desire to leave the Ukraine has been well-documented since the beginning. See this amusing article from 1994 in the NYT for an example [1]: > A separatist candidate who wants Crimea to leave Ukraine and integrate with Russia won more than 70 percent of the vote today in run-off presidential elections, preliminary results showed. His victory sets the stage for a direct confrontation between Ukraine and Crimea, a Black Sea peninsula that is dominated by ethnic Russians. Russia took Crimea illegally by force, but people of Crimea are hardly victims. Ultimately, the goal of sanctions is to signal that the US is not accepting Crimea as part of Russia. To allow US companies to operate in Crimea would legitimize the annexation. (And as far as the people go - I don't think anyone cares for the people, particularly.) [1] https://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/31/world/separatist-winning-crimea-presidency.html https://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/31/world/separatist-winning-...

coliveira 7y ago
If, as you say, people want to be part of Russia, what is the difference? Do they need to be punished for wanting to be part of another country?
- hihi123 7y ago
  That's an open-ended question :) If your goal is to keep the Ukraine whole, you generally punish the people whose desire to leave runs counter to that goal.
- riku_iki 7y ago
  Russia would severely punish people who wants to be part of other country (not Russia). It is in both countries (Ukraine and Russia) constitution, that it is against the law to separate territory without country-wide voting.
  - coliveira 7y ago
    But the discussion is not about what Russia or Ukraine would do, instead, it is about American companies punishing people living in a territory that is now separate from Ukraine.
    - riku_iki 7y ago
      Discussion is about US government which punishing Russian government by applying restrictions, US companies just follow the law, they don't have any other choice. When governments fight, people suffer.
      - acqq 7y ago
        > which punishing Russian government They obviously don't "punish the Russian government" when they prevent the people living in Crimea contributing to the open source project.
        riku_iki 7y ago
        US government doesn't know if people who access github will contribute, or just take and use including military and government applications.
        jwieczorek 7y ago
        There's hardly any military work that would involve using code from GitHub in Crimea. All the R&D is done in mainland Russia. This targets common people who use GitHub for their pet projects or just regular work. In general, this thread demonstrates that here there's very little understanding about the mass psychology of Russians, and, really, any nation other than Americans. No one in Crimea is going to rebel against the Russian government because of the U.S. sanctions against them exclusively. A policy like this only validates the Russian government's narrative of the U.S. going after Russia as such. If the U.S. government wanted to seek allies in Crimeans, they could perhaps focus on sanctioning Moscovian oligarchs. Well, except they won't, because Russian oligarchs that lose leverage in the Kremlin later make for good dissidents to be used by the U.S. as an ideological tool against Russia. And the oligarchic system is keeping Russia from modernizing, which is also in the U.S. interest.
  - shitgoose 7y ago
    any country would severely punish people who want to be part of another country.
    - bagacrap 7y ago
      I've never understood why this is true and considered ethical. If a part of your country wishes to govern themselves, or be governed by someone else, why should that be met with violence?
      - riku_iki 7y ago
        It is a complex system with many actors on different levels. You can see it on several levels: - People in power are interested to hold the power as long as they can, and that's why they suppress separatists movements - Countries which allows such separations become weaker and don't survive, because separation is manipulatable process, and damage country's economy and power - concept of ethics is very driven by government: they tell people that it is their land, and nobody can take it from them
  - gdy 7y ago
    Serbian constitution didn't allow unilateral secession of Kosovo either. Where are the sanctions against Kosovo then?
- PunchTornado 7y ago
  if their rights are respected I don't agree with it. See Catalonia and Spain. I don't agree with it because people in Barcelona have every right. However look and HK and China. I definetely agree for HK to be independent after a referendum.

coliveira 7y ago

If, as you say, people want to be part of Russia, what is the difference? Do they need to be punished for wanting to be part of another country?

hihi123 7y ago
That's an open-ended question :) If your goal is to keep the Ukraine whole, you generally punish the people whose desire to leave runs counter to that goal.
riku_iki 7y ago
Russia would severely punish people who wants to be part of other country (not Russia). It is in both countries (Ukraine and Russia) constitution, that it is against the law to separate territory without country-wide voting.
- coliveira 7y ago
  But the discussion is not about what Russia or Ukraine would do, instead, it is about American companies punishing people living in a territory that is now separate from Ukraine.
  - riku_iki 7y ago
    Discussion is about US government which punishing Russian government by applying restrictions, US companies just follow the law, they don't have any other choice. When governments fight, people suffer.
    - acqq 7y ago
      > which punishing Russian government They obviously don't "punish the Russian government" when they prevent the people living in Crimea contributing to the open source project.
      - riku_iki 7y ago
        US government doesn't know if people who access github will contribute, or just take and use including military and government applications.
        jwieczorek 7y ago
        There's hardly any military work that would involve using code from GitHub in Crimea. All the R&D is done in mainland Russia. This targets common people who use GitHub for their pet projects or just regular work. In general, this thread demonstrates that here there's very little understanding about the mass psychology of Russians, and, really, any nation other than Americans. No one in Crimea is going to rebel against the Russian government because of the U.S. sanctions against them exclusively. A policy like this only validates the Russian government's narrative of the U.S. going after Russia as such. If the U.S. government wanted to seek allies in Crimeans, they could perhaps focus on sanctioning Moscovian oligarchs. Well, except they won't, because Russian oligarchs that lose leverage in the Kremlin later make for good dissidents to be used by the U.S. as an ideological tool against Russia. And the oligarchic system is keeping Russia from modernizing, which is also in the U.S. interest.
- shitgoose 7y ago
  any country would severely punish people who want to be part of another country.
  - bagacrap 7y ago
    I've never understood why this is true and considered ethical. If a part of your country wishes to govern themselves, or be governed by someone else, why should that be met with violence?
    - riku_iki 7y ago
      It is a complex system with many actors on different levels. You can see it on several levels: - People in power are interested to hold the power as long as they can, and that's why they suppress separatists movements - Countries which allows such separations become weaker and don't survive, because separation is manipulatable process, and damage country's economy and power - concept of ethics is very driven by government: they tell people that it is their land, and nobody can take it from them
- gdy 7y ago
  Serbian constitution didn't allow unilateral secession of Kosovo either. Where are the sanctions against Kosovo then?
PunchTornado 7y ago
if their rights are respected I don't agree with it. See Catalonia and Spain. I don't agree with it because people in Barcelona have every right. However look and HK and China. I definetely agree for HK to be independent after a referendum.