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>In fact it already _was_ abused against Trump. FISA warrants to spy on his campaign were obtained by misleading the FISA court with what we now know was fake e

>In fact it already _was_ abused against Trump. FISA warrants to spy on his campaign were obtained by misleading the FISA court with what we now know was fake evidence. Source? Carter Page had a FISA warrant against him after he left the Trump campaign. And none of it was based on fake evidence. Sounds like you're just regurgitating Republican and Fox News talking points without any critical thinking. >There's also a strong possibility that McConell wants voter ID, which is something the Democrats are strangely reluctant to introduce even though it's quite a popular thing to require Republicans are strangely against giving voting IDs or state IDs for free to low income people. They also restrict early voting to make poor people choose between losing pay and voting, and are also against making election day a national holiday. They are also on record stating that the voter ID laws will help them win.

m0zg 7y ago
Must I do all your research for you or are you capable of using Google? Just search for "misled fisa court". Quote from The Hill, which is among the top links: "We know the FBI falsely told the court in the first application warrant that it knew of no derogatory information about the dossier author, Christopher Steele, a retired British intelligence operative who worked simultaneously as an FBI source and a Clinton campaign opposition researcher. In fact, a senior Justice Department official named Bruce Ohr warned the FBI that Steele was desperate to stop Trump from becoming president, and other evidence showed Steele had been leaking to the media in violation of FBI rules — all derogatory evidence weighing against Steele’s credibility. Further, we’ve learned from congressional testimony of other FBI officials that the dossier’s contents had not been corroborated by the FBI when it was used in the FISA application — even though the Woods Procedures mentioned above required that only corroborated evidence be used in support of a warrant request. And, finally, we know from sources that the FBI had other evidence suggesting the innocence of two Trump campaign aides it targeted — Page and George Papadopoulos — that wasn’t provided to the court." End quote. The net result is, two of Trump campaign aides were under clandestine counterintelligence surveillance based on fabricated information that the Clinton campaign paid $1.02M for to a foreign agent.
- bluescarni 7y ago
  The FBI has been filing inaccurate FISA warrants for nearly two decades (the article on the Hill refers to incidents dating back to 2002/2003). Not really surprising in the post-9/11 era, where procedural abuses and law-enforcement power creep are tolerated if the justification is to "catch terrorists". I didn't read anything suggesting that the FBI abused FISA warrants specifically against Trump people.
  - m0zg 7y ago
    Knowingly? Against presidential campaigns? While setting up "insurance policy" in case he gets elected? The "Russian collusion" hoax was invented the day after Clinton lost. It has served democrats well, but it's now time to retire those talking points and come up with some new ones.
    - belltaco 7y ago
      >Knowingly? Against presidential campaigns? How many times does one have to repeat before its clear to you Trump campaign wasn't spied on? Carter Page left the Trump Campaign by the time there was a FISA warrant against him. The Trump campaign was not spied on.
      - ryacko 7y ago
        During the investigation into the Trump campaign, they didn’t have other warrants?
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - bluescarni 7y ago
      This is the same FBI that dealt a devastating blow to Clinton's campaign with the re-opening (and later re-closing, again with no charges) of the emails investigation shortly before the election. Are you really suggesting that right after the election they "turned around" and started undermining the Trump presidency? What kind of sense does it make?
18pfsmt 7y ago
>Republicans are strangely against giving voting IDs or state IDs for free to low income people. They also restrict early voting to make poor people choose between losing pay and voting, and are also against making election day a national holiday. They are also on record stating that the voter ID laws will help them win. In the United States, we have 50 sovereign states that are responsible for election systems/laws. Distributing power was a key feature in the founding of the USA, and shitting on the design in order meet a goal (I personally happen to appreciate) does not justify the means. Mis-characterizing your opponent's argument is not helpful.
slowmovintarget 7y ago
I seem to recall the voter ID laws that Democrats at the state level worked so hard to kill did include free ID provisions for low income and disadvantaged. Republicans certainly aren't against it. There's a reason Democrats don't like voter ID laws: https://www2.gwu.edu/~erpapers/teachinger/glossary/tammany-hall.cfm https://www2.gwu.edu/~erpapers/teachinger/glossary/tammany-h... https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/10/27/2-investigators-chicago-voters-cast-ballots-from-beyond-the-grave/ https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/10/27/2-investigators-chic... Dead voters (who magically cast ballots) and social strong-arming and vote-buying like Tammany Hall (over two different periods in New York's history) all tend to vote Democrat.

m0zg 7y ago

Must I do all your research for you or are you capable of using Google? Just search for "misled fisa court". Quote from The Hill, which is among the top links: "We know the FBI falsely told the court in the first application warrant that it knew of no derogatory information about the dossier author, Christopher Steele, a retired British intelligence operative who worked simultaneously as an FBI source and a Clinton campaign opposition researcher. In fact, a senior Justice Department official named Bruce Ohr warned the FBI that Steele was desperate to stop Trump from becoming president, and other evidence showed Steele had been leaking to the media in violation of FBI rules — all derogatory evidence weighing against Steele’s credibility. Further, we’ve learned from congressional testimony of other FBI officials that the dossier’s contents had not been corroborated by the FBI when it was used in the FISA application — even though the Woods Procedures mentioned above required that only corroborated evidence be used in support of a warrant request. And, finally, we know from sources that the FBI had other evidence suggesting the innocence of two Trump campaign aides it targeted — Page and George Papadopoulos — that wasn’t provided to the court." End quote. The net result is, two of Trump campaign aides were under clandestine counterintelligence surveillance based on fabricated information that the Clinton campaign paid $1.02M for to a foreign agent.

bluescarni 7y ago
The FBI has been filing inaccurate FISA warrants for nearly two decades (the article on the Hill refers to incidents dating back to 2002/2003). Not really surprising in the post-9/11 era, where procedural abuses and law-enforcement power creep are tolerated if the justification is to "catch terrorists". I didn't read anything suggesting that the FBI abused FISA warrants specifically against Trump people.
- m0zg 7y ago
  Knowingly? Against presidential campaigns? While setting up "insurance policy" in case he gets elected? The "Russian collusion" hoax was invented the day after Clinton lost. It has served democrats well, but it's now time to retire those talking points and come up with some new ones.
  - belltaco 7y ago
    >Knowingly? Against presidential campaigns? How many times does one have to repeat before its clear to you Trump campaign wasn't spied on? Carter Page left the Trump Campaign by the time there was a FISA warrant against him. The Trump campaign was not spied on.
    - ryacko 7y ago
      During the investigation into the Trump campaign, they didn’t have other warrants?
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - bluescarni 7y ago
    This is the same FBI that dealt a devastating blow to Clinton's campaign with the re-opening (and later re-closing, again with no charges) of the emails investigation shortly before the election. Are you really suggesting that right after the election they "turned around" and started undermining the Trump presidency? What kind of sense does it make?

18pfsmt 7y ago

>Republicans are strangely against giving voting IDs or state IDs for free to low income people. They also restrict early voting to make poor people choose between losing pay and voting, and are also against making election day a national holiday. They are also on record stating that the voter ID laws will help them win. In the United States, we have 50 sovereign states that are responsible for election systems/laws. Distributing power was a key feature in the founding of the USA, and shitting on the design in order meet a goal (I personally happen to appreciate) does not justify the means. Mis-characterizing your opponent's argument is not helpful.

slowmovintarget 7y ago

I seem to recall the voter ID laws that Democrats at the state level worked so hard to kill did include free ID provisions for low income and disadvantaged. Republicans certainly aren't against it. There's a reason Democrats don't like voter ID laws: https://www2.gwu.edu/~erpapers/teachinger/glossary/tammany-hall.cfm https://www2.gwu.edu/~erpapers/teachinger/glossary/tammany-h... https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/10/27/2-investigators-chicago-voters-cast-ballots-from-beyond-the-grave/ https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/10/27/2-investigators-chic... Dead voters (who magically cast ballots) and social strong-arming and vote-buying like Tammany Hall (over two different periods in New York's history) all tend to vote Democrat.