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This has been my problem with the Russia story. We never get enough detail to make our own judgement of the severity of this. The media and the Democrats lump e

This has been my problem with the Russia story. We never get enough detail to make our own judgement of the severity of this. The media and the Democrats lump everything together under the umbrella of “Russia hacked our election/democracy”. Aside from the nonsensical nature of that statement, it has been a catch-all term for everything from Facebook ads to hacking some state commission’s Wordpress site that contained no secure data.... to possibly real hacks of important systems which are still classified. I really don’t care about the former but the later would be a big deal.

zelon88 7y ago
Lets ignore the nomenclature for a minute. Russians used American social media to manipulate public opinion to help implement a Russian sympathizing Administration. Ignore the verbiage. Start with that.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  That sounds like a great thing to raise as an issue in an election. Lots of voters might care about that. However, we have a First Amendment, so it's not against the law for anyone to talk to anyone else. That's the case whether it's some weird social media thing like those pictures of Bernie with big muscles or an actual true fact like that the DNC staff sent emails to each other discussing how they had screwed over Bernie. That is strictly legal, whether it is done by Russians or by the Citizens United dudes or by the actual Wikipedia source.
  - FuckButtons 7y ago
    The first amendment does not protect the right of foreign nations to dispense propaganda. Indeed there are in fact provisions prohibiting foreign nations involving themselves in the election process in the US constitution.
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      Try again, greenbean. The text is literally this: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. I don't see the words "foreign nations" in there anywhere? Why are you posting this falsehood under a new account?
      - dang 7y ago
        Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20538796 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20538796.
  - zelon88 7y ago
    The first amendment protects Russians, in Russia, who want to post misinformation on Facebook for the purpose of damaging our democracy? Are you hearing yourself? And your whataboutism with Democrats is completely irrelevant. Liberals are not unAmerican or unpatriotic. Liberals are not the enemy and neither is the press. You are now defending a foreign nation's act of war against the United States presumably because they support the same administrative agenda that you do. If the Bill of Rights protected foreign nationals, then the same document would give immigrants the rights they come knocking on our door for. If the Bill of Rights applied to Russia what is the GOPs beef with Hondurans? And there's another problem. You said... "or an actual true fact like...". It is a TRUE FACT that Russia meddled in our elections. The military agrees. The UN agrees. Even the Senate which is Republican controlled put out a report citing "extensive" Russian interference. Everyone agrees. Drop the QAnon/InfoWars shit. It's not news.
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      Haha Qanon. That was hilarious the first time I heard this "talking point". I've never read nor heard a single thing produced by "Infowars". I get my news from actual journalists [0]. You might try that... I'm talking about right and wrong actions. You've responded by talking about right and wrong groups of people. That is a child's way of thinking. Maybe you've watched too many superhero movies? [0] https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/07/05/crowdstrikeout_muellers_own_report_undercuts_its_core_russia-meddling_claims.html https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/07/05/...
      - dang 7y ago
        Personal attacks will get you banned here. We've had to warn you many times about breaking the site guidelines. That's dismaying, and if you keep doing it we'll have little choice but to ban you. So would you please review them and follow them when posting here? I realize it's not easy, but we need you to be scrupulous about it and contribute to preserving this community rather than wrecking it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - dang 7y ago
- ericras 7y ago
  That’s not good. But as with all things in life, you have to treat it proportionally to the impact as well as weigh it against other issues. Russian nationals (who, as of last week, Mueller was unable to convince a judge were tied to the Kremlin) buying Facebook ads to post memes of Jesus arm wrestling Satan is pretty damn low on my give-a-shit list. All sorts of foreign nationals participate in our elections. They volunteer on campaigns. They appear as pundits on our news shows. Clinton’s campaign contracted with a foreigner (Steele) to dig up dirt. The threat posed by China to the United States is 100x greater than Russia. Casting Russia as our greatest enemy rather than trying to find areas of mutual interest is a huge foreign policy misstep by the left in America.
  - cwkoss 7y ago
    Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia

zelon88 7y ago

Lets ignore the nomenclature for a minute. Russians used American social media to manipulate public opinion to help implement a Russian sympathizing Administration. Ignore the verbiage. Start with that.

jessaustin 7y ago
That sounds like a great thing to raise as an issue in an election. Lots of voters might care about that. However, we have a First Amendment, so it's not against the law for anyone to talk to anyone else. That's the case whether it's some weird social media thing like those pictures of Bernie with big muscles or an actual true fact like that the DNC staff sent emails to each other discussing how they had screwed over Bernie. That is strictly legal, whether it is done by Russians or by the Citizens United dudes or by the actual Wikipedia source.
- FuckButtons 7y ago
  The first amendment does not protect the right of foreign nations to dispense propaganda. Indeed there are in fact provisions prohibiting foreign nations involving themselves in the election process in the US constitution.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    Try again, greenbean. The text is literally this: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. I don't see the words "foreign nations" in there anywhere? Why are you posting this falsehood under a new account?
    - dang 7y ago
      Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20538796 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20538796.
- zelon88 7y ago
  The first amendment protects Russians, in Russia, who want to post misinformation on Facebook for the purpose of damaging our democracy? Are you hearing yourself? And your whataboutism with Democrats is completely irrelevant. Liberals are not unAmerican or unpatriotic. Liberals are not the enemy and neither is the press. You are now defending a foreign nation's act of war against the United States presumably because they support the same administrative agenda that you do. If the Bill of Rights protected foreign nationals, then the same document would give immigrants the rights they come knocking on our door for. If the Bill of Rights applied to Russia what is the GOPs beef with Hondurans? And there's another problem. You said... "or an actual true fact like...". It is a TRUE FACT that Russia meddled in our elections. The military agrees. The UN agrees. Even the Senate which is Republican controlled put out a report citing "extensive" Russian interference. Everyone agrees. Drop the QAnon/InfoWars shit. It's not news.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    Haha Qanon. That was hilarious the first time I heard this "talking point". I've never read nor heard a single thing produced by "Infowars". I get my news from actual journalists [0]. You might try that... I'm talking about right and wrong actions. You've responded by talking about right and wrong groups of people. That is a child's way of thinking. Maybe you've watched too many superhero movies? [0] https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/07/05/crowdstrikeout_muellers_own_report_undercuts_its_core_russia-meddling_claims.html https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/07/05/...
    - dang 7y ago
      Personal attacks will get you banned here. We've had to warn you many times about breaking the site guidelines. That's dismaying, and if you keep doing it we'll have little choice but to ban you. So would you please review them and follow them when posting here? I realize it's not easy, but we need you to be scrupulous about it and contribute to preserving this community rather than wrecking it. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - dang 7y ago
ericras 7y ago
That’s not good. But as with all things in life, you have to treat it proportionally to the impact as well as weigh it against other issues. Russian nationals (who, as of last week, Mueller was unable to convince a judge were tied to the Kremlin) buying Facebook ads to post memes of Jesus arm wrestling Satan is pretty damn low on my give-a-shit list. All sorts of foreign nationals participate in our elections. They volunteer on campaigns. They appear as pundits on our news shows. Clinton’s campaign contracted with a foreigner (Steele) to dig up dirt. The threat posed by China to the United States is 100x greater than Russia. Casting Russia as our greatest enemy rather than trying to find areas of mutual interest is a huge foreign policy misstep by the left in America.
- cwkoss 7y ago
  Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia