4 ms·

Looks like it's easier to resign from Square and accept a salary bump and title bump elsewhere than navigate Square's "Growth Framework". If we wanted this muc

Looks like it's easier to resign from Square and accept a salary bump and title bump elsewhere than navigate Square's "Growth Framework". If we wanted this much structure, we would have worked for the government or military.

ngngngng 7y ago
Exactly. When a company hires me, they understand that they're going to have to pay me while I get up to speed and master all the responsibilities of the job. Why should promotions be any different? Are they back-paying these people after they take on extra responsibilities for 6 months? These seems like a somewhat immoral way to squeeze extra productivity out of your workers without paying more. "Just keep piling extra work onto your plate and in six months we'll talk about the possibility of a promotion! It's gonna be great!"
- bgorman 7y ago
  I understand your sentiment. However, put yourself in the shoes of a manager. Who does he look to promote? Those who are already doing the job. It is annoying, but at least Square is codifing this so that the expectation is explicit.
- vonmoltke 7y ago
  How is this different from, say, Google, except that Square is open and honest about it? After I got my offer from Google last year (that I rejected), my prospective manager told me that in order to get promoted (from L4 to L5 in this case) I would need to be operating at that next level for some period of time before my promo packet was even submitted, let alone the promotion come through.
  - tdeck 7y ago
    As someone who worked at Square ~3 years ago and now works at Google, the rate-limiting and "promotion by apology" (their term, not mine) feel fairly similar - Google's is a bit more impersonal. However Google pays much, much better. Square (I felt) offered more opportunities to build a good engineering reputation and to gain actualization in other ways, and to make a significant impact.
    - vonmoltke 7y ago
      > However Google pays much, much better. Eh, at least in my case the offer they extended me was shit (speaking from my privileged and fortunate position). Combined with that promotion process it was easy to reject (and a month later I got an offer elsewhere for one level and $75k/year more).
      - tdeck 7y ago
        So my data may very well be out of date. Google's salaries are indeed somewhat low, but their total comp was way higher than what Square targeted at the time. Since Square is now public and doing so well I'm not surprised to hear they're paying better than they did.
  - joshuamorton 7y ago
    To be clear, google is also open and honest about it. "We aim for promo to Avoid the Peter principle" is like in the official guidelines.
pkd 7y ago
This is just true for tech overall. Job hopping will almost always lead to more money than staying at one place and navigating the ladder. What you gain with cash, you lose in clout.
- draw_down 7y ago
  In that case I'll take the cash.
- allthecybers 7y ago
  It all comes down to your personal goals. If gaining 20-30% comp for the effort of building you resume and phonescreening and day long interview loops is worth it then it sounds like you shouldn’t stay somewhere for more than 2-4 years. If doing the job above you for 6-10 months to maybe get 10-15% is more your speed, then find a company you wanna stick with for a while. I’ve done both. Jumped until I reached a comp level I’m content with and now playing the promo game expecting minimal reward increase for my labor but enjoying the stability.

ngngngng 7y ago

Exactly. When a company hires me, they understand that they're going to have to pay me while I get up to speed and master all the responsibilities of the job. Why should promotions be any different? Are they back-paying these people after they take on extra responsibilities for 6 months? These seems like a somewhat immoral way to squeeze extra productivity out of your workers without paying more. "Just keep piling extra work onto your plate and in six months we'll talk about the possibility of a promotion! It's gonna be great!"

bgorman 7y ago
I understand your sentiment. However, put yourself in the shoes of a manager. Who does he look to promote? Those who are already doing the job. It is annoying, but at least Square is codifing this so that the expectation is explicit.
vonmoltke 7y ago
How is this different from, say, Google, except that Square is open and honest about it? After I got my offer from Google last year (that I rejected), my prospective manager told me that in order to get promoted (from L4 to L5 in this case) I would need to be operating at that next level for some period of time before my promo packet was even submitted, let alone the promotion come through.
- tdeck 7y ago
  As someone who worked at Square ~3 years ago and now works at Google, the rate-limiting and "promotion by apology" (their term, not mine) feel fairly similar - Google's is a bit more impersonal. However Google pays much, much better. Square (I felt) offered more opportunities to build a good engineering reputation and to gain actualization in other ways, and to make a significant impact.
  - vonmoltke 7y ago
    > However Google pays much, much better. Eh, at least in my case the offer they extended me was shit (speaking from my privileged and fortunate position). Combined with that promotion process it was easy to reject (and a month later I got an offer elsewhere for one level and $75k/year more).
    - tdeck 7y ago
      So my data may very well be out of date. Google's salaries are indeed somewhat low, but their total comp was way higher than what Square targeted at the time. Since Square is now public and doing so well I'm not surprised to hear they're paying better than they did.
- joshuamorton 7y ago
  To be clear, google is also open and honest about it. "We aim for promo to Avoid the Peter principle" is like in the official guidelines.

pkd 7y ago

This is just true for tech overall. Job hopping will almost always lead to more money than staying at one place and navigating the ladder. What you gain with cash, you lose in clout.

draw_down 7y ago
In that case I'll take the cash.
allthecybers 7y ago
It all comes down to your personal goals. If gaining 20-30% comp for the effort of building you resume and phonescreening and day long interview loops is worth it then it sounds like you shouldn’t stay somewhere for more than 2-4 years. If doing the job above you for 6-10 months to maybe get 10-15% is more your speed, then find a company you wanna stick with for a while. I’ve done both. Jumped until I reached a comp level I’m content with and now playing the promo game expecting minimal reward increase for my labor but enjoying the stability.