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> I think there are a lot of people with this viewpoint, that the current security theater is a waste of effort at best. How large is the group of people who t

> I think there are a lot of people with this viewpoint, that the current security theater is a waste of effort at best. How large is the group of people who think it isn't wasted effort? I recently had a conversation with a group of well-traveled, well-educated people who honestly believed that the new scanners and pat-downs are okay because they are designed for our own safety. The 4th Amendment was never a concern to them. When I brought it up, the answer was essentially that the end justified the means. Ben Franklin's famous words[1] did not convince them otherwise. How are you (general) educating people about their rights? [1] http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/1381.html http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/1381.html

jdp23 16y ago
The polls I've seen are that most people think it's wasted effort, although even so a lot don't see it as a big deal. Usually I start by discussing effectiveness, or lack thereof -- so I've practiced explaining why they don't work and the actual risks in ways that everybody can understand. Sometimes it's better to start with the safety risks (which is something I'm pretty credible on because I was on a National Academy of Sciences panel on dependable software). If it's a small-government person or fiscal conservative, I'll emphasize the cost. Or I'll discuss the dignity aspects, phrasing it in terms of the government's policy to take a naked picture of every traveler and choosing 3% of them to have their breasts and genitals groped. It often takes several iterations; don't be frustrated. And of course there are plenty of people who just won't be convinced, in which case my usual strategy it to stay in their face enough that they consider changing their position just so I'll shut up about it already :-)
billmcneale 16y ago
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I have the utmost respect for Ben Franklin, but this quote is not his best work. You might not be realizing it, but you are giving up liberty every day in exchange of something you find more valuable. Examples include signing up for credit, giving your address or social security in exchange of discounts, using a card at your grocery store or local mall, etc... There is really nothing wrong with giving up some liberty just as long as 1) you're clear on what you're getting in exchange and 2) you agree that the deal is fair.
- evizaer 16y ago
  Convenience is not safety. Your point is not directly relevant to the Franklin quote.

jdp23 16y ago

The polls I've seen are that most people think it's wasted effort, although even so a lot don't see it as a big deal. Usually I start by discussing effectiveness, or lack thereof -- so I've practiced explaining why they don't work and the actual risks in ways that everybody can understand. Sometimes it's better to start with the safety risks (which is something I'm pretty credible on because I was on a National Academy of Sciences panel on dependable software). If it's a small-government person or fiscal conservative, I'll emphasize the cost. Or I'll discuss the dignity aspects, phrasing it in terms of the government's policy to take a naked picture of every traveler and choosing 3% of them to have their breasts and genitals groped. It often takes several iterations; don't be frustrated. And of course there are plenty of people who just won't be convinced, in which case my usual strategy it to stay in their face enough that they consider changing their position just so I'll shut up about it already :-)

billmcneale 16y ago

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I have the utmost respect for Ben Franklin, but this quote is not his best work. You might not be realizing it, but you are giving up liberty every day in exchange of something you find more valuable. Examples include signing up for credit, giving your address or social security in exchange of discounts, using a card at your grocery store or local mall, etc... There is really nothing wrong with giving up some liberty just as long as 1) you're clear on what you're getting in exchange and 2) you agree that the deal is fair.

evizaer 16y ago
Convenience is not safety. Your point is not directly relevant to the Franklin quote.