7 ms·

Equifax tracking is opt-in. It's a term on any loan or credit card you take out.

• soulofmischief 7y ago
  That's like when websites say I've opted into such and such just by visiting the website. It's a stretch to call something opt-in when it's unavoidable in modern life.
  • harryh 7y ago
    It's not like that at all. When you take out a loan or credit card you sign a legal document agreeing to all of the various terms. You don't sign anything when visiting a website.
    • stanmancan 7y ago
      I think the important part of the parent post is "It's a stretch to call something opt-in when it's unavoidable in modern life."
      • harryh 7y ago
        You can easily get through modern life without taking out a loan from the financial system. I'm 41 years old and I've never had a home or car loan. I have credit cards, but I easily could have gotten by using debit cards instead.
        • soulofmischief 7y ago
          So your financial history is being tracked and scrutinized. At 41, you might be able to live and die without this being a big problem. In my 20s, I worry about my ability to secure healthcare and other such necessities in my later life based on a social credit score which includes financial credit history I never opted into. Just getting on a lease is enough for a credit pull. It's unavoidable.
          • harryh 7y ago
            It's easy to sign a lease with no credit history. At most they'll just ask for a bigger security deposit.
            • hestipod 7y ago
              You are ignoring the fact that not everyone's circumstances and opportunities are the same. You keep saying "easy" as if its an objective fact. Saying "I did this thing with these limits so anyone can" is dishonest and the implication meant by that is hostile to others.
              • harryh 7y ago
                Are you trying to say "not everyone has the cash on hand to put down a bigger security deposit?" If that's what you are trying to say, just say it. If that's not what you are trying to say then I don't understand your comment.
                • hestipod 7y ago
                  I am saying that amongst many other things which are self evident. Not everyone has the situation and finances you do. Not everyone has the same buying markets and opportunities you do. Not everyone can exist within their social, family, and work situations with your "truths" and "rules". One can exist without using electricity...doesn't make it comfortable or practical AND it's not an argument for the idea of entering into a third party holding and selling and not securing your info in order to get it. I don't really understand why you are being defensive of bad practices and policies with the "nobody makes you sign up" argument. I never understand why people defend these things and blame the victims of them.
                  • harryh 7y ago
                    many other things which are self evident. I'm not being defensive. I just honestly do not understand what point you are trying to make. I think that the things that you think are self evident are not self evident to me. Perhaps that is my failing. shrug
        • cowpig 7y ago
          Well, if it worked out for you I guess that settles the debate! Wait, I think it's _disproof_ that relies on one _counter_ example. I guess it's easy to get confused.
          • harryh 7y ago
            It's easy for anyone. Credit cards aren't an essential service necessary for modern life.
            • fortran77 7y ago
              Renting a car; renting a hotel room, being able to travel easily and spend money in a foreign country.
              • harryh 7y ago
                Yes, some of those things (not the hotel room though, a debit card will do just fine for that) become more complicated without a credit card. But that is because you are, essentially, asking someone to loan you money. As soon as you start doing that it's reasonable for them to want to participate in a system that helps them understand how risky you are. Plus, all that being said, you can still do all those things without a credit card. It'll just be somewhat more complicated.
            • ticmasta 7y ago
              >> you can still do all those things without a credit card. It'll just be somewhat more complicated. You certainly can't show up at a hotel and check in without a credit card at any hotel I'd consider stay at You also can't rent a car from a major carrier without someone's credit card securing it
              • harryh 7y ago
                I have personally paid for hotel rooms at incredibly popular major hotel chains using a debit card. You can also definitely rent a car some some of the major carriers without a credit card. See: https://www.bankrate.com/personal-finance/smart-money/can-you-rent-a-car-with-a-debit-card/ https://www.bankrate.com/personal-finance/smart-money/can-yo... Definitely not all locations all the time (see: "somewhat more complicated").
      • tptacek 7y ago
        Credit cards --- bona fide, revolving-credit credit cards --- are so completely avoidable in modern life that I'm a little mystified as to why people get them at all. I couldn't for most of my adult life (weak credit score) and feel like I've dodged a bullet. I have a (secured) card with a low limit now, just to rent cars, but it's gotten a lot easier to rent cars with debit cards now, too. Heading off a routine objection to this observation: I've had a family with kids since I was 22, and spent most of the years prior to the Matasano acquisition living, if not paycheck-to-paycheck, at least pretty close to it. I'll add: I don't know what my credit score is now --- it's probably better than it was, since I've had that dumb car-renting card for 6+ years --- but, knowing that my credit was bad enough that I couldn't get a non-secured card, including from my own bank after the wires for the Matasano acquisition cleared, and knowing that I had at the time a house and a car and all that stuff, and really no trouble ever getting a lease for any place I could afford the rent for, I find myself wondering a lot how much credit scores actually matter. If I'd thought that when I was 22, I'd say, "welp, I just don't have enough life experience to know". But I'm 42 now, and I have a bit of a hard time projecting to a point where I can see a clear reason to give a shit what number Equifax generates for me. Like, maybe I'll care a lot when I'm 62? I kind of doubt it, though.
        • detcader 7y ago
          I feel similarly mystified sometimes as I've never needed one. When my mom mentions paying off a CC bill, I think "why not just use debit?" Maybe she'll have to delay purchases or occasionally miss out on something, but it ends up being the same money. There are also people who are below the income line of paycheck-to-paycheck, people with addictions, people who have jobs or lives with risk of injury and thus medical bills or unpaid leave for recovery, people who have a big family with needs they have to pay or travel for... and I feel people can use CCs because rich people culture pressures them to cling to things and the idea of being "successful" to attract peers and love interests... but that's just my subjective analysis.
          • stanmancan 7y ago
            Without a credit card, how do you buy anything online, or sign up for any SAAS? (the ones that don't accept Paypal, which is most). Using pre-paid Visa cards are possible sometimes (but not always accepted) but are also a hassle to manage as a primary payment method. Booking travel online? All credit cards. Renting a hotel or car can be next to impossible without a credit card to put down. Once I had to pay a $500 deposit to stay in a hotel for 1 night because I didn't have a credit card they could put on file.
    • abawany 7y ago
      It's not just loans and credit cards - it is also for insurance (home, auto), some utilities, and employment.
• mikeash 7y ago
  It’s opt in, in the sense that you can refrain from participating in the modern financial system if you want to avoid it.
  • harryh 7y ago
    Yes, if you want people to loan you money at low interest rates you have to agree to the system whereby if you don't pay things back the system will keep track of that and not loan you money at such low rates again. That seems pretty reasonable.
    • cowpig 7y ago
      That goal seems reasonable, but it seems you're implying that therefore the credit system is reasonable, which doesn't follow.
    • mikeash 7y ago
      That part is indeed reasonable. What’s less reasonable is that you also have to participate in the system if you want a bank account or electricity or such. Or, heck, you don’t even need that; just have some fraudster open an account with your info and you’re in.
      • harryh 7y ago
        Opening a plain jane checking account won't impact your credit report. Neither will the vast majority of accounts with electric or other utility companies. If a fraudster does something in your name, you can get things corrected. I agree that this can be more work than it should be, and would support regulations to make dealing with this easier.
        • mikeash 7y ago
          Merely opening an account won’t. But if something goes wrong and they decide you owe money, that will. It’s not a certainty, but by just opening a checking account you are taking on an certain amount of risk that your info will be reported to the credit agency. You can get your info corrected if you’re the victim of fraud. Can you get it deleted entirely, such that the credit bureau has no record of you, as if you never existed? Or is participation in the system not actually voluntary at all?
• simpss 7y ago
  GDPR "opt-in" consent definition also says it must be possible to "opt-out" and still receive the service. If the data is required for providing the service, no consent is needed, but you must be able to clearly show that the data is indeed an absolute requirement to provide the service.
  • harryh 7y ago
    I'm comfortable with the idea that "if you take out a loan, but don't pay us back, we're going to tell other people that you're a bigger credit risk" is an absolute requirement to provide the service. It's certainly a requirement if you don't want the interest rates on loans to be much higher.
    • tptacek 7y ago
      It wasn't always a requirement! They had other heuristics before they had credit scoring databases, like, "do your parents have an account here", and, "do you have the correct skin color and religious affiliation".
  • closeparen 7y ago
    Someone would probably be willing to write you a loan with opaque credit history, for the right price. But that price would be so high you'd never agree to pay it. (This is not the same as no credit history. No credit history means you have not taken out any loans before. An unknown history with credit, that you decline to reveal, is far worse). Credit reporting is an immensely valuable institution, and a lot of that value gets passed down to borrowers.
• jki275 7y ago
  No. Equifax tracks you whether you take out loans or not.
  • harryh 7y ago
    Tracks what? The fact that you exist? That's public record.
    • jki275 7y ago
      They aggregate every piece of information they can get out of every database they can access about you.
      • harryh 7y ago
        That's definitely not true. There is all kinds of information about me out in the world that does not appear in my equifax credit report. The only thing that's in there outside of financial information is my name and a list of places I have lived.
        • jki275 7y ago
          The fact you don't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I have to laugh a little at the naivete of thinking that a credit reporting company shows you everything they know about you on a credit report. They don't even show you everything they show loan companies who pull your report.