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A mouse is not necessary to understand computers nor to interact with them. I don't want schools to prepare the next generation of Web users that can create an

by madez 7y ago

A mouse is not necessary to understand computers nor to interact with them. I don't want schools to prepare the next generation of Web users that can create an account with Google, but barely anything more; that way the democratic oversight of technological changes and powerful companies fails, because the citizens aren't informed and competent. Humans are strongly bound to habits. I have seen that personally, and in reports about institutions doing the change. Some people were strongly opposed to change away from Windows because the alternative doesn't look and feel the same, so they don't like it. And that even if the alternative offers the same capabilities. Building a habit around Windows is part of Microsoft strategy to bind people to its platform. That is why academics and schools get discounts. Public infrastructure like schools must not fall for this fixation. Children learn how a combustion engine works, and how it can be controlled. Why don't they learn how a CPU works, and how to program it? > You can't learn how to program or really know what the computer is doing unless you are using and trying to create something on there. This is incorrect. The principles of a computer can be explained and understood with pen and paper. Even the execution of a simplistic computer can be worked out with pen and paper, just as algorithms can be thought and reasoned about that way.

davesmith1983 7y ago
> A mouse is not necessary to understand computers nor to interact with them. Almost every operating system on the market comes with a WIMP interface that requires some sort of pointer device. So yes they are kinda necessary now. > don't want schools to prepare the next generation of Web users that can create an account with Google, but barely anything more; that way the democratic oversight of technological changes and powerful companies fails, because the citizens aren't informed and competent. You are building a strawman here. We were talking about concepts. Concepts can be taught on any modern operating system. What logging into Google has to do with any of this isn't clear. > Humans are strongly bound to habits. I have seen that personally, and in reports about institutions doing the change. Some people were strongly opposed to change away from Windows because the alternative doesn't look and feel the same, so they don't like it. And that even if the alternative offers the same capabilities. Sorry this is another mis-representation conflating habits with people not liking people changing something that works for them. People generally don't like you changing things because change normally brings a new set of problems they don't want to deal with when what they already have works perfectly well. That is what they are really telling you when they say "It doesn't feel the same". This has nothing to do with teaching computing concepts in schools. The reality is that only a small percentage of those children taught these core concepts will choose to pursue them in higher education. > Building a habit around Windows is part of Microsoft strategy to bind people to its platform. That is why academics and schools get discounts. Public infrastructure like schools must not fall for this fixation. Another way of saying this is "Apple and Microsoft make products that work well and people will prefer them if they aren't forced to use something else first". Again this isn't anything to do with teaching computing concepts which can be done on any modern computer (or even ones from the past).
- j605 7y ago
  I was forced to use Windows at school when I was already using Linux at home for about 2 years. So what do you think I should've done here?
  - davesmith1983 7y ago
    Well sometimes you don't get to use the tech you want. I almost never get the use the tech I want on a project, It is normally chosen for me by someone else and I have to live with their decisions. People like to pretend that being required to use to use a Windows machine is akin to water-boarding or some other awful imposition.
    - madez 7y ago
      I don't want to use Windows. I won't work for anybody that forces me to use Windows. I can choose where to work. Children are forced to go to school, it is obligatory. That's why it is not okay to force children in schools to use Windows. Computers for children are used for convenience or to solve problems. Neither of which requires Windows, or any other vendor-specific platform. It's neither justified nor necessary to force children to use Windows or any other specific operating system in school.
      - davesmith1983 7y ago
        > Neither of which requires Windows, or any other vendor-specific platform. If they don't require windows and it is OS agnostic it shouldn't matter whether they use Windows or something else. > It's neither justified nor necessary to force children to use Windows or any other specific operating system in school. You are talking about Children using Windows as if it was forcing them to clean chimneys. This is ridiculous.

by madez 7y ago

davesmith1983 7y ago

> A mouse is not necessary to understand computers nor to interact with them. Almost every operating system on the market comes with a WIMP interface that requires some sort of pointer device. So yes they are kinda necessary now. > don't want schools to prepare the next generation of Web users that can create an account with Google, but barely anything more; that way the democratic oversight of technological changes and powerful companies fails, because the citizens aren't informed and competent. You are building a strawman here. We were talking about concepts. Concepts can be taught on any modern operating system. What logging into Google has to do with any of this isn't clear. > Humans are strongly bound to habits. I have seen that personally, and in reports about institutions doing the change. Some people were strongly opposed to change away from Windows because the alternative doesn't look and feel the same, so they don't like it. And that even if the alternative offers the same capabilities. Sorry this is another mis-representation conflating habits with people not liking people changing something that works for them. People generally don't like you changing things because change normally brings a new set of problems they don't want to deal with when what they already have works perfectly well. That is what they are really telling you when they say "It doesn't feel the same". This has nothing to do with teaching computing concepts in schools. The reality is that only a small percentage of those children taught these core concepts will choose to pursue them in higher education. > Building a habit around Windows is part of Microsoft strategy to bind people to its platform. That is why academics and schools get discounts. Public infrastructure like schools must not fall for this fixation. Another way of saying this is "Apple and Microsoft make products that work well and people will prefer them if they aren't forced to use something else first". Again this isn't anything to do with teaching computing concepts which can be done on any modern computer (or even ones from the past).

j605 7y ago
I was forced to use Windows at school when I was already using Linux at home for about 2 years. So what do you think I should've done here?
- davesmith1983 7y ago
  Well sometimes you don't get to use the tech you want. I almost never get the use the tech I want on a project, It is normally chosen for me by someone else and I have to live with their decisions. People like to pretend that being required to use to use a Windows machine is akin to water-boarding or some other awful imposition.
  - madez 7y ago
    I don't want to use Windows. I won't work for anybody that forces me to use Windows. I can choose where to work. Children are forced to go to school, it is obligatory. That's why it is not okay to force children in schools to use Windows. Computers for children are used for convenience or to solve problems. Neither of which requires Windows, or any other vendor-specific platform. It's neither justified nor necessary to force children to use Windows or any other specific operating system in school.
    - davesmith1983 7y ago
      > Neither of which requires Windows, or any other vendor-specific platform. If they don't require windows and it is OS agnostic it shouldn't matter whether they use Windows or something else. > It's neither justified nor necessary to force children to use Windows or any other specific operating system in school. You are talking about Children using Windows as if it was forcing them to clean chimneys. This is ridiculous.