7 ms·
And then, if free will does not exist, you are predetermined to believe that murderers should be rehabilitated. You took one snippet out of context. The point
by bena 7y ago
And then, if free will does not exist, you are predetermined to believe that murderers should be rehabilitated.
You took one snippet out of context. The point of the statement wasn't that "murderers should be punished".
The point of the post was to highlight that if free will does not exist, then agency is not something that exists. You don't get the choice. Morality does not exist because like someone else's rock example, you don't ascribe motive to the rock. So if our actions are entirely preprogrammed, and all of our reasoning is post-hoc rationalizations, then you can't really ascribe motive to us either. Because none of us have any real control.
We're either people who do A or people who don't do A. And no matter how much your belief that murderers can rehabilitated, there will be a segment who are just predetermined to not be swayed by such arguments.
You can't simultaneously say free will does not exist and say that we have any kind of control.
- sysbinn 7y agoYes, like I said fate decides. I'm not saying we have control and I wrote responses but they're dead. I think they're still good responses and even if fate decided.
- bena 7y agoThe issue is that you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Free will's existence not mattering doesn't do anything for the "thrilling observations" or whatever. It says nothing to whether things get better or worse. Not to mention, you have no choice whether you find it thrilling or not. So trying to convince someone else that it is thrilling is also implicitly figuring people have some sort of free will or discretion. And you're assuming that you're right and that people need to get on board because "being aware of the nature of reality is a good thing". Well, the nature of reality is that whether free will exists is pointless. You don't even address your cherry-picking of my other comment.
- syssbinn 7y agoI don't think there is a disagreement here. I agree with your long post conveying it's all fate in the end. I can still write about what I think while observing everything and knowing fate has made my impression. I just like the discussion because who knows if today will be the day to read something thought provoking around it. Anyways, I'm not trying to convince anyone something is thrilling. I just find it thrilling and even while knowing I don't have free will in any regard of my life. I think nobody can be right in the traditional sense (traditionally assuming free will exists and one person can be right). My views are just of how I wish society functioned because I think I would prefer to live in a society that cared about the misfortunate by fate. Maybe that's how the multiverse would work for people moving (after death) to a universe more suited for how they turned out. Still wouldn't bring free will but would be cool. Anyway I'm not trying to cherry pick. I just thought I would express myself best with what I pulled out to write more. Thanks very much for the discussion!
- bena 7y agoFree will exists or it doesn't. There's no middle ground. Someone is going to be right and someone is going to be wrong. But, like I said, it doesn't matter. The answer doesn't change anything. It's a purely academic question. If you weren't trying to cherry pick, then why did you do it so blatantly?