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> As long as we keep shoveling meat into our faces 5x per day Right, because that's your biggest problem. It couldn't be the fossil fuels used for transportat

> As long as we keep shoveling meat into our faces 5x per day Right, because that's your biggest problem. It couldn't be the fossil fuels used for transportation (29%) or the industry that produces the goods and the raw materials like cement (22%), the production of electricity (28%), or even the commercial and residential emissions (12%). Oh no, our biggest problem has to be agriculture (9%). And let's not talk about the use of fertilizers, or of the transportation of food for thousands of miles before it reaches the table. Let's also not talk about the practice of burning crop residues, or of the seas of plastic. The problem has to be meat and the solution is to shame meat eaters.

danieldk 7y ago
The problem is everything. I sometimes have discussions with people about unnecessary flights. People always point out, that there is no need to change their flying habits as long as industry is producing even more CO2. The thing is that if we want to turn this around we have to change our behavior in everything. We need to radically adjust our travel patterns, our consumption patterns (why a new phone every 2 years?), our eating patterns, our energy sources, etc. Unfortunately, I fear that it is too late to turn things around. Climate change has been a known serious problem for at least three to four decades. But politicians do not want to bring the bad news that we need to change our lives drastically in order to get their votes the next election. But we should still try for future generations. No more holidays by plane. Switch to renewable energy. Live close to work and travel by bike or work remotely. And yes, perhaps eat a little less meat.
geddy 7y ago
Yes, meat and meat eaters are a very big problem here. Not the only one as you pointed out, but look at is this way: - Industrial regulations will take years if not forever to be reformed to offset the damage in that sector. You also have big money in keeping things "business as usual", so good luck with that. Things need to be made. - Transportation: it will take years to get all the gasoline-fueled vehicles off the road, although there are some good strides being made here. However, the biggest issue is that electric cars are prohibitively expensive, and people still need to get to work. - Production of electricity: again, good strides being made in this department but it's still years away. We need electricity. - Meat eating: you, the people next to you, _everyone_ can immediately decide this very second to do their part. Here's the thing about food though - human beings don't need to eat meat. There is plenty of plant-based food out there and at this day and age and depending on your location, highly restricting your meat and dairy use is the easiest it's ever been. Out of the list of issues you described contributing to climate change, the one you are annoyed at me for bringing up is the only one that you personally can fix, entirely by yourself. Yet, you choose not to, and I don't really understand why. tl;dr: All those other issues require change at a massive level that the "average Joe" can't do a whole lot about. But eating no or less meat requires minimal effort, everyone can do it starting right this second, and it has a huge payoff. Not just on a climate impact scale, but on a global health level. If people won't even make that first step that can be done for no effort, how do you think any of those huge issues will get figured out?
- bad_user 7y ago
  > you, the people next to you, _everyone_ can immediately decide this very second to do their part Or, with all due respect, I can tell you to fuck off. My problem with environmental movements is people basically bring their own beliefs and agendas in, with no support from science and then rub it in other people's faces, trying to turn their religion into policy. We could have a chat about how most vegans are deficient in certain vitamins and proteins, making the vegan diet, in fact, more challenging than any other diet. We could also talk about how animals and plants could be raised sustainably. But there would be no point to it because your mind is already set. And it's incredibly frustrating to see the minds of Silicon Valley invest in fake meat instead of solving problems that actually matter, but that's not new.

danieldk 7y ago

The problem is everything. I sometimes have discussions with people about unnecessary flights. People always point out, that there is no need to change their flying habits as long as industry is producing even more CO2. The thing is that if we want to turn this around we have to change our behavior in everything. We need to radically adjust our travel patterns, our consumption patterns (why a new phone every 2 years?), our eating patterns, our energy sources, etc. Unfortunately, I fear that it is too late to turn things around. Climate change has been a known serious problem for at least three to four decades. But politicians do not want to bring the bad news that we need to change our lives drastically in order to get their votes the next election. But we should still try for future generations. No more holidays by plane. Switch to renewable energy. Live close to work and travel by bike or work remotely. And yes, perhaps eat a little less meat.

geddy 7y ago

Yes, meat and meat eaters are a very big problem here. Not the only one as you pointed out, but look at is this way: - Industrial regulations will take years if not forever to be reformed to offset the damage in that sector. You also have big money in keeping things "business as usual", so good luck with that. Things need to be made. - Transportation: it will take years to get all the gasoline-fueled vehicles off the road, although there are some good strides being made here. However, the biggest issue is that electric cars are prohibitively expensive, and people still need to get to work. - Production of electricity: again, good strides being made in this department but it's still years away. We need electricity. - Meat eating: you, the people next to you, _everyone_ can immediately decide this very second to do their part. Here's the thing about food though - human beings don't need to eat meat. There is plenty of plant-based food out there and at this day and age and depending on your location, highly restricting your meat and dairy use is the easiest it's ever been. Out of the list of issues you described contributing to climate change, the one you are annoyed at me for bringing up is the only one that you personally can fix, entirely by yourself. Yet, you choose not to, and I don't really understand why. tl;dr: All those other issues require change at a massive level that the "average Joe" can't do a whole lot about. But eating no or less meat requires minimal effort, everyone can do it starting right this second, and it has a huge payoff. Not just on a climate impact scale, but on a global health level. If people won't even make that first step that can be done for no effort, how do you think any of those huge issues will get figured out?

bad_user 7y ago
> you, the people next to you, _everyone_ can immediately decide this very second to do their part Or, with all due respect, I can tell you to fuck off. My problem with environmental movements is people basically bring their own beliefs and agendas in, with no support from science and then rub it in other people's faces, trying to turn their religion into policy. We could have a chat about how most vegans are deficient in certain vitamins and proteins, making the vegan diet, in fact, more challenging than any other diet. We could also talk about how animals and plants could be raised sustainably. But there would be no point to it because your mind is already set. And it's incredibly frustrating to see the minds of Silicon Valley invest in fake meat instead of solving problems that actually matter, but that's not new.