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How are they not normal and necessary? Are you willing to give up electricity for 6 hours of your day to combat climate change? I think most people aren't willi

How are they not normal and necessary? Are you willing to give up electricity for 6 hours of your day to combat climate change? I think most people aren't willing to do that. If you were to take the problem seriously you'd need to start doing things like that and no one wants for their quality of life to decrease that much.

eropple 7y ago
"No electricity for six hours a day" at an individual/consumer level is not the solution and obviously never will be even if the math lined up. Think economically, not individually. Commuting is normal but it is not necessary. Suburban and rural living at consistent standards of living (necessarily higher-consumption factors due to diseconomies of scale) are not necessary. You're right in that people won't do it, but that doesn't make it necessary. And I'm putting enough solar on my roof to run the house and charge my in-the-near-future EV, so, yeah...
- starbugs 7y ago
  This discussion reflects an additional problem. There is no agreement about the solution. Try selling people a problem without a solution. Good luck!
  - user5994461 7y ago
    There are plenty of solutions, but none that people would willingly participate in. If you can't think of something, ask Thanos ;)
    - starbugs 7y ago
      So there are — effectively — none. And even the hypothetical solutions nobody wants to commit to are being disputed in the style you can witness above.
- maximente 7y ago
  what do you mean exactly when you say think economically, not individually? because we already know the entire world creating solar panels/batteries, as you seem to be implying is the way forward, doesn't scale: - we know that that effort would result in an uptick in carbon production (need to produce all this new stuff: factories, ship it everywhere, etc.) - we also know that as energy gets cheaper, people use more of it - there aren't enough rare earths to replace all transportation with EVs, and even if there were it's like 20% of emissions; this ignores rare earths needed for outside storage batteries/grid tech/... the only solution - happens to be economic - is massive shedding of consumption by basically the entire population of the earth, and if you think your standard of living won't decrease many-fold you aren't being realistic.

eropple 7y ago

"No electricity for six hours a day" at an individual/consumer level is not the solution and obviously never will be even if the math lined up. Think economically, not individually. Commuting is normal but it is not necessary. Suburban and rural living at consistent standards of living (necessarily higher-consumption factors due to diseconomies of scale) are not necessary. You're right in that people won't do it, but that doesn't make it necessary. And I'm putting enough solar on my roof to run the house and charge my in-the-near-future EV, so, yeah...

starbugs 7y ago
This discussion reflects an additional problem. There is no agreement about the solution. Try selling people a problem without a solution. Good luck!
- user5994461 7y ago
  There are plenty of solutions, but none that people would willingly participate in. If you can't think of something, ask Thanos ;)
  - starbugs 7y ago
    So there are — effectively — none. And even the hypothetical solutions nobody wants to commit to are being disputed in the style you can witness above.
maximente 7y ago
what do you mean exactly when you say think economically, not individually? because we already know the entire world creating solar panels/batteries, as you seem to be implying is the way forward, doesn't scale: - we know that that effort would result in an uptick in carbon production (need to produce all this new stuff: factories, ship it everywhere, etc.) - we also know that as energy gets cheaper, people use more of it - there aren't enough rare earths to replace all transportation with EVs, and even if there were it's like 20% of emissions; this ignores rare earths needed for outside storage batteries/grid tech/... the only solution - happens to be economic - is massive shedding of consumption by basically the entire population of the earth, and if you think your standard of living won't decrease many-fold you aren't being realistic.