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I don't really understand the defeatist attitude here. By here I don't mean you, but HN in general this crops up a lot. Humans as a species have done some pre

by axaxs 7y ago

I don't really understand the defeatist attitude here. By here I don't mean you, but HN in general this crops up a lot. Humans as a species have done some pretty impressive things once they put their mind to it. It seems now, not many people care. But once the issue is shoved in everyone's face, and big money cities start sinking, I fully expect a global effort. I can't say with 100% certainty we'll be able to fix it, but I won't say we're done for, either.

adrianN 7y ago
The problem is that we need to put our mind to in RIGHT NOW if we want to prevent catastrophic events. It's too late if we start in ten years. Nothing gives the indication that we'll act quickly enough.
- axaxs 7y ago
  I'm not disagreeing, but sadly I feel it may take catastrophic events to get everyone to stop bickering about politics, brexit, reality tv, and all the other trivialities people like to spend their time arguing about. Logically, to me, if we know what has caused cooling in the past ( whether it's an abundance of some algae, low carbon, or blotting out the sun with ash, I've read all three), we have an idea of what we could try.
  - adrianN 7y ago
    Once we hit trigger points like permafrost melting and releasing its 1500 Gigatons of stored carbon, there probably very little we can do.
CalRobert 7y ago
"', I fully expect a global effort. I can't say with 100% certainty we'll be able to fix it, but I won't say we're done for, either. " But by then it's too late. The feedback cycle is measured in decades. It'll keep getting hotter. of course, it depends what we mean by "too late" Do I really think climate breakdown will cause the extinction of the human race? No, I think some pockets could live on. I do suspect it could result in a cataclysm greater than any in recorded history, the collapse of civilization, and billions of deaths though. It's not crazy to think we'll see nukes fly over this. A number of nuclear powers stand to see their countries desertified, and billions of desperate starving people next to now-reasonably-useful land is not a recipe for peace. You think China's just gonna starve and watch Russia in envy? Or maybe antibiotic resistance will address the root cause at the source. I desperately hope I'm wrong. But when people like Greta Thunberg say (I paraphrase quite liberally) "Why the fuck should I go to school to learn about grammar when civilization is going to collapse" they kind of have a point.
- axaxs 7y ago
  But these things happen over long periods of time. It's not like China catches on fire and everyone burns to death (tongue in cheek). People get uncomfortable, natural disaster increase, so they migrate. At some point either migration itself becomes an issue, or the last of the poor are tired of being left behind and mass migrate, perhaps violently. So, a collapse is possible, but I think of it as more of a slow lean than a collapse, if it were to happen. And even that would take decades if not centuries. Civilization collapse is inevitable, we know that from the fact a stars life is finite, among other things. That shouldn't prevent anyone from trying to live a happy life, and passing on teachings to the next generation.
esarbe 7y ago
Well, I can't say with 100% that we're done for either! But to me it looks more and more like we really dropped the ball, in a game where you don't get to drop the ball. We[1] have known about antrophogenic climate change since about 50 years, but for fun and profit decided to deny and lie about it. [2] Even today we've got "serious business interests" that are actively fighting any attempt to mitigate the damage. Heck, even the President of the United States makes fun about it. So, I see slim chances for survival (of our global civilisation). Yes, we humans are ingenious, impressive creatures. But we've triggered a cascade that will just keep on going. Now the arctic is burning, releasing frozen methane. I really hope for your global effort. But I don't see it arriving until it is way too late. [1] As in: part of humanity [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_cont...
xenocyon 7y ago
Counterpoint: humans as a species have pretty much always been bad for this planet's biosphere, not just now but for tens of millennia. If you're looking for a species to save us, I'd recommend turning to trees instead :)

by axaxs 7y ago

adrianN 7y ago

The problem is that we need to put our mind to in RIGHT NOW if we want to prevent catastrophic events. It's too late if we start in ten years. Nothing gives the indication that we'll act quickly enough.

axaxs 7y ago
I'm not disagreeing, but sadly I feel it may take catastrophic events to get everyone to stop bickering about politics, brexit, reality tv, and all the other trivialities people like to spend their time arguing about. Logically, to me, if we know what has caused cooling in the past ( whether it's an abundance of some algae, low carbon, or blotting out the sun with ash, I've read all three), we have an idea of what we could try.
- adrianN 7y ago
  Once we hit trigger points like permafrost melting and releasing its 1500 Gigatons of stored carbon, there probably very little we can do.

CalRobert 7y ago

"', I fully expect a global effort. I can't say with 100% certainty we'll be able to fix it, but I won't say we're done for, either. " But by then it's too late. The feedback cycle is measured in decades. It'll keep getting hotter. of course, it depends what we mean by "too late" Do I really think climate breakdown will cause the extinction of the human race? No, I think some pockets could live on. I do suspect it could result in a cataclysm greater than any in recorded history, the collapse of civilization, and billions of deaths though. It's not crazy to think we'll see nukes fly over this. A number of nuclear powers stand to see their countries desertified, and billions of desperate starving people next to now-reasonably-useful land is not a recipe for peace. You think China's just gonna starve and watch Russia in envy? Or maybe antibiotic resistance will address the root cause at the source. I desperately hope I'm wrong. But when people like Greta Thunberg say (I paraphrase quite liberally) "Why the fuck should I go to school to learn about grammar when civilization is going to collapse" they kind of have a point.

axaxs 7y ago
But these things happen over long periods of time. It's not like China catches on fire and everyone burns to death (tongue in cheek). People get uncomfortable, natural disaster increase, so they migrate. At some point either migration itself becomes an issue, or the last of the poor are tired of being left behind and mass migrate, perhaps violently. So, a collapse is possible, but I think of it as more of a slow lean than a collapse, if it were to happen. And even that would take decades if not centuries. Civilization collapse is inevitable, we know that from the fact a stars life is finite, among other things. That shouldn't prevent anyone from trying to live a happy life, and passing on teachings to the next generation.

esarbe 7y ago

Well, I can't say with 100% that we're done for either! But to me it looks more and more like we really dropped the ball, in a game where you don't get to drop the ball. We[1] have known about antrophogenic climate change since about 50 years, but for fun and profit decided to deny and lie about it. [2] Even today we've got "serious business interests" that are actively fighting any attempt to mitigate the damage. Heck, even the President of the United States makes fun about it. So, I see slim chances for survival (of our global civilisation). Yes, we humans are ingenious, impressive creatures. But we've triggered a cascade that will just keep on going. Now the arctic is burning, releasing frozen methane. I really hope for your global effort. But I don't see it arriving until it is way too late. [1] As in: part of humanity [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_cont...

xenocyon 7y ago

Counterpoint: humans as a species have pretty much always been bad for this planet's biosphere, not just now but for tens of millennia. If you're looking for a species to save us, I'd recommend turning to trees instead :)