8 ms·

You can generally do the same thing in the US for emails to/from public university addresses with a FOIA request. This seems kind of wild to me, but apparently

by harryh 7y ago

You can generally do the same thing in the US for emails to/from public university addresses with a FOIA request. This seems kind of wild to me, but apparently it works.

wallace_f 7y ago
Would this work in the way the article described? Any email between other people containing your name in it?
- harryh 7y ago
  Yes.
  - wallace_f 7y ago
    But private, no such luck?
inetknght 7y ago
Does FOIA apply to private companies? I thought it only applies to governmental institutions.
- LyndsySimon 7y ago
  I'm not an expert here, and I'd have to go read the law in detail to know for sure, but my limited experience leads me to believe that it likely does apply to private companies in the course of business in some cases. If the company is a federal contractor, for instance, there are a slew of federal regulations with which they must comply to remain eligible for contracts. Likewise, government grants come with strings attached as well. Finally, if the behavior that you're investigating is illegal - such as discrimination against a "protected class" - there's always the possibility of suing them and acquiring the documents through discovery. All it takes is money.
- btrettel 7y ago
  There was a recent discussion on the FOI-L listserv about when a private entity is subject to public records requests: https://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A2=FOI-L;326b96b.1907 https://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A2=FOI-L;326b96b.190... While the example applies only for Washington state, I imagine other states have similar laws. Edit: Appears you need to be logged in to view the message. Here's the message: > In Washington, we have well-established case law that allows private entities to be considered the functional equivalent of an agency, based on a four-part test established by the court in the Telford case. There’s a lot of info online about it, but here’s a concise article: http://mrsc.org/Home/Stay-Informed/MRSC-Insight/January-2017/When-Must-a-Private-Entity-Comply-with-the-PRA.aspx http://mrsc.org/Home/Stay-Informed/MRSC-Insight/January-2017.... The factors of the test are: > 1. Whether the entity performs a governmental function; > 2. The extent to which government funds the entity’s activities; > 3. The extent of government involvement in the entity’s activities; and > 4. Whether the entity was created by the government. > It’s been applied to entire agencies, and to individual contracts being performed on behalf of public agencies. We’ve also seen individuals be deemed the functional equivalent of a government employee for purposes of PRA compliance.
Balgair 7y ago
In the US, many states have an Open Records act on the books. Typically this extends to the emails that acedemics at public universities send using their .edu addresses (among many other things). Though it varies from state to state, generally communications in and among anyone that recieves state funds in any way are considered part of the public record. For instance, in CA the Sacremento Bee mantains a DB of all the public worker salaries, including university professor salaries, donations, grant funds, patent royalty payments, etc. It is very comprehensive and I know female acedemics that have used it to argue (suessfully) for better pay: https://www.sacbee.com/news/databases/state-pay/article229468549.html https://www.sacbee.com/news/databases/state-pay/article22946... In CO, there is the open records act. From what I hear, it is farily simple to obtain all emails that a professor sends out, including ones from a personal email account that happens to send out emails via a router that the state owns: https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/info_center/cora.html https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/info_center/cora.html
- knd775 7y ago
  Transparent California goes even further than that. https://transparentcalifornia.com/ https://transparentcalifornia.com/
dragonwriter 7y ago
> You can generally do the same thing in the US for emails to/from public university addresses with a FOIA request No, you can't, because FOIA applies to federal agencies only. Some official communications of a public university might be subject to similar state sunshine laws, but not all email to and from public university email addresses (even some official communication would be protected by FERPA or other privacy laws, and therefore not disclosable under a state open records law.)
- harryh 7y ago
  OK, you're correct that it's not the federal FOIA law that is the issue, but most states have similar state laws that have been used in the past for this sort of thing. See, for example: https://www.acenet.edu/the-presidency/columns-and-features/Pages/Legal-Watch-0112.aspx https://www.acenet.edu/the-presidency/columns-and-features/P...
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > but most states have similar state laws Which are addressed in the part of my post after the first sentence (which is entirely consistent with your link): they don't generally apply to all email from a public university address, or even (because of both express exceptions in the state laws and superceding federal law) all university employee communication using such addresses.
    - harryh 7y ago
      Heh, ok. I think we're agreeing then. :) Definitely some variation from state to state. And definitely some restrictions due to things like FERPA and other privacy laws. But I think it's good for state university employees to know that this kind of thing can happen at all. I think that many of them would be surprised to learn that the general public can make any kind of request at all for copies of what they consider private emails. I know that my wife, who does some work in areas that can be politically charged, was when she took a job at UNC and someone told her this.
- tptacek 7y ago

by harryh 7y ago

You can generally do the same thing in the US for emails to/from public university addresses with a FOIA request. This seems kind of wild to me, but apparently it works.

wallace_f 7y ago

Would this work in the way the article described? Any email between other people containing your name in it?

harryh 7y ago
Yes.
- wallace_f 7y ago
  But private, no such luck?

inetknght 7y ago

Does FOIA apply to private companies? I thought it only applies to governmental institutions.

LyndsySimon 7y ago
I'm not an expert here, and I'd have to go read the law in detail to know for sure, but my limited experience leads me to believe that it likely does apply to private companies in the course of business in some cases. If the company is a federal contractor, for instance, there are a slew of federal regulations with which they must comply to remain eligible for contracts. Likewise, government grants come with strings attached as well. Finally, if the behavior that you're investigating is illegal - such as discrimination against a "protected class" - there's always the possibility of suing them and acquiring the documents through discovery. All it takes is money.
btrettel 7y ago
There was a recent discussion on the FOI-L listserv about when a private entity is subject to public records requests: https://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A2=FOI-L;326b96b.1907 https://listserv.syr.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A2=FOI-L;326b96b.190... While the example applies only for Washington state, I imagine other states have similar laws. Edit: Appears you need to be logged in to view the message. Here's the message: > In Washington, we have well-established case law that allows private entities to be considered the functional equivalent of an agency, based on a four-part test established by the court in the Telford case. There’s a lot of info online about it, but here’s a concise article: http://mrsc.org/Home/Stay-Informed/MRSC-Insight/January-2017/When-Must-a-Private-Entity-Comply-with-the-PRA.aspx http://mrsc.org/Home/Stay-Informed/MRSC-Insight/January-2017.... The factors of the test are: > 1. Whether the entity performs a governmental function; > 2. The extent to which government funds the entity’s activities; > 3. The extent of government involvement in the entity’s activities; and > 4. Whether the entity was created by the government. > It’s been applied to entire agencies, and to individual contracts being performed on behalf of public agencies. We’ve also seen individuals be deemed the functional equivalent of a government employee for purposes of PRA compliance.

Balgair 7y ago

In the US, many states have an Open Records act on the books. Typically this extends to the emails that acedemics at public universities send using their .edu addresses (among many other things). Though it varies from state to state, generally communications in and among anyone that recieves state funds in any way are considered part of the public record. For instance, in CA the Sacremento Bee mantains a DB of all the public worker salaries, including university professor salaries, donations, grant funds, patent royalty payments, etc. It is very comprehensive and I know female acedemics that have used it to argue (suessfully) for better pay: https://www.sacbee.com/news/databases/state-pay/article229468549.html https://www.sacbee.com/news/databases/state-pay/article22946... In CO, there is the open records act. From what I hear, it is farily simple to obtain all emails that a professor sends out, including ones from a personal email account that happens to send out emails via a router that the state owns: https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/info_center/cora.html https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/info_center/cora.html

knd775 7y ago
Transparent California goes even further than that. https://transparentcalifornia.com/ https://transparentcalifornia.com/

dragonwriter 7y ago

> You can generally do the same thing in the US for emails to/from public university addresses with a FOIA request No, you can't, because FOIA applies to federal agencies only. Some official communications of a public university might be subject to similar state sunshine laws, but not all email to and from public university email addresses (even some official communication would be protected by FERPA or other privacy laws, and therefore not disclosable under a state open records law.)

harryh 7y ago
OK, you're correct that it's not the federal FOIA law that is the issue, but most states have similar state laws that have been used in the past for this sort of thing. See, for example: https://www.acenet.edu/the-presidency/columns-and-features/Pages/Legal-Watch-0112.aspx https://www.acenet.edu/the-presidency/columns-and-features/P...
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > but most states have similar state laws Which are addressed in the part of my post after the first sentence (which is entirely consistent with your link): they don't generally apply to all email from a public university address, or even (because of both express exceptions in the state laws and superceding federal law) all university employee communication using such addresses.
  - harryh 7y ago
    Heh, ok. I think we're agreeing then. :) Definitely some variation from state to state. And definitely some restrictions due to things like FERPA and other privacy laws. But I think it's good for state university employees to know that this kind of thing can happen at all. I think that many of them would be surprised to learn that the general public can make any kind of request at all for copies of what they consider private emails. I know that my wife, who does some work in areas that can be politically charged, was when she took a job at UNC and someone told her this.
tptacek 7y ago