6 ms·

> Rather, they see Tesla as a small, unimportant, poorly run company (...) > (...) > Tesla is just another car company making just another car. Definitely f

> Rather, they see Tesla as a small, unimportant, poorly run company (...) > (...) > Tesla is just another car company making just another car. Definitely false. Q2 revenue was 25% of Nissan's (which crossed my radar recently due to layoffs). That may be small, for some definition of small, but it's definitely not "small, unimportant". I won't comment on poorly run -- a qualitative assessment that does not lead to a definitive conclusion. I'd challenge with a comparison to a well run startup in the automotive space, but there is none to compare it with. As for another car company making just another car, I don't understand how can you even write those words together. A Tesla may be a good car, a poor car, depending on who you ask. What it is definitely not is your average Volkswagen.

ethbro 7y ago
> [Tesla] Q2 revenue was 25% of Nissan's And a bit less than 10% of Volkswagen or Toyota's. With about 25% of their individual market caps.
- sergiosgc 7y ago
  I don't get the message you are trying to convey. It's natural that Tesla is smaller than the largest automakers. It's smaller than medium automakers. That much is expectable. If you are referring to the disconnect between revenue and market cap, it may point to a valuation error by the market. Or not. The market is clearly incorporating expected growth into the current value. Is the valuation correct? I have no idea. I'd not infer too much from this fact alone, though.
Lazare 7y ago
What you're not following, I think, is how little I care about cars and car companies. :) I don't care about Nissan, and I certainly don't care about a company a quarter their size. I care a little about Toyota because they're huge, but yes, small companies in industries that don't directly impact me are unimportant to me. If I worked for a car company, I'd probably care, but I work for a tech company, so I don't. > A Tesla may be a good car, a poor car, depending on who you ask. What it is definitely not is your average Volkswagen. Okay, sure, it's twice that car a Volkswagen is, I trust you. But it's still a car. Again, I think there is a significant faction of Tesla fans that don't see Tesla as a car company, and instead see it more like SpaceX. I don't.
- sergiosgc 7y ago
  > Again, I think there is a significant faction of Tesla fans that don't see Tesla as a car company, and instead see it more like SpaceX. I don't. I do, and I'd like to explain why. This is not about cars. The single most important challenge our generation faces is dealing with climate change. We absolutely need to curb CO2 emissions. We don't need to limit CO2 emissions, we need to cut them significantly. There are two avenues for this goal. Either we cut energy consumption, significantly, or we switch energy sources away from fossil fuels. I believe cutting energy consumption is impossible. It goes against a five thousand year trend of per-capita energy consumption growth, amplified by population growth. If you step back from the ecologist message a bit and look at the overarching trend, the picture is clear: Cutting global energy consumption is a no-go. The other path is switching energy sources. We're advancing on that front. However, for renewable sources to have the needed impact, they must be applicable to transportation. Here, in this specific point, Tesla was and is key. It has already succeeded. The BMW CEO was fired because of lack of focus on EVs. It's a stark change from pre-Tesla, and it is a market change created by Tesla. Every automaker will go the EV route, and I'm completely convinced that, absent Tesla, they would sit on their hands for at least another decade.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    If the saving the world stuff was actually Tesla's mission they wouldn't have their CEO bounce back from LA to the Bay Area on a private jet every other day. Each time he flies he offsets the carbon savings of pretty much every Tesla driven in CA that day. The switch to EVs has more to do with Obama than Tesla. He pushed through many of the incentives that made Tesla possible.
    - sergiosgc 7y ago
      > If the saving the world stuff was actually Tesla's mission they wouldn't have their CEO bounce back from LA to the Bay Area on a private jet every other day. Each time he flies he offsets the carbon savings of pretty much every Tesla driven in CA that day. I don't follow the logic. The impact of a jet flying back and forth pales in comparison to the impact of switching vehicles away from fossils. You're comparing the incomparable. Many orders of magnitude of difference separate the two.
clouddrover 7y ago
> I'd challenge with a comparison to a well run startup in the automotive space, but there is none to compare it with. Here are some car startups. Rivian has received the most investment of the three from companies like Amazon and Ford. Rivian: https://products.rivian.com/ https://products.rivian.com/ Sono Motors: https://sonomotors.com/ https://sonomotors.com/ Lightyear: https://lightyear.one/ https://lightyear.one/

ethbro 7y ago

> [Tesla] Q2 revenue was 25% of Nissan's And a bit less than 10% of Volkswagen or Toyota's. With about 25% of their individual market caps.

sergiosgc 7y ago
I don't get the message you are trying to convey. It's natural that Tesla is smaller than the largest automakers. It's smaller than medium automakers. That much is expectable. If you are referring to the disconnect between revenue and market cap, it may point to a valuation error by the market. Or not. The market is clearly incorporating expected growth into the current value. Is the valuation correct? I have no idea. I'd not infer too much from this fact alone, though.

Lazare 7y ago

What you're not following, I think, is how little I care about cars and car companies. :) I don't care about Nissan, and I certainly don't care about a company a quarter their size. I care a little about Toyota because they're huge, but yes, small companies in industries that don't directly impact me are unimportant to me. If I worked for a car company, I'd probably care, but I work for a tech company, so I don't. > A Tesla may be a good car, a poor car, depending on who you ask. What it is definitely not is your average Volkswagen. Okay, sure, it's twice that car a Volkswagen is, I trust you. But it's still a car. Again, I think there is a significant faction of Tesla fans that don't see Tesla as a car company, and instead see it more like SpaceX. I don't.

sergiosgc 7y ago
> Again, I think there is a significant faction of Tesla fans that don't see Tesla as a car company, and instead see it more like SpaceX. I don't. I do, and I'd like to explain why. This is not about cars. The single most important challenge our generation faces is dealing with climate change. We absolutely need to curb CO2 emissions. We don't need to limit CO2 emissions, we need to cut them significantly. There are two avenues for this goal. Either we cut energy consumption, significantly, or we switch energy sources away from fossil fuels. I believe cutting energy consumption is impossible. It goes against a five thousand year trend of per-capita energy consumption growth, amplified by population growth. If you step back from the ecologist message a bit and look at the overarching trend, the picture is clear: Cutting global energy consumption is a no-go. The other path is switching energy sources. We're advancing on that front. However, for renewable sources to have the needed impact, they must be applicable to transportation. Here, in this specific point, Tesla was and is key. It has already succeeded. The BMW CEO was fired because of lack of focus on EVs. It's a stark change from pre-Tesla, and it is a market change created by Tesla. Every automaker will go the EV route, and I'm completely convinced that, absent Tesla, they would sit on their hands for at least another decade.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  If the saving the world stuff was actually Tesla's mission they wouldn't have their CEO bounce back from LA to the Bay Area on a private jet every other day. Each time he flies he offsets the carbon savings of pretty much every Tesla driven in CA that day. The switch to EVs has more to do with Obama than Tesla. He pushed through many of the incentives that made Tesla possible.
  - sergiosgc 7y ago
    > If the saving the world stuff was actually Tesla's mission they wouldn't have their CEO bounce back from LA to the Bay Area on a private jet every other day. Each time he flies he offsets the carbon savings of pretty much every Tesla driven in CA that day. I don't follow the logic. The impact of a jet flying back and forth pales in comparison to the impact of switching vehicles away from fossils. You're comparing the incomparable. Many orders of magnitude of difference separate the two.

clouddrover 7y ago

> I'd challenge with a comparison to a well run startup in the automotive space, but there is none to compare it with. Here are some car startups. Rivian has received the most investment of the three from companies like Amazon and Ford. Rivian: https://products.rivian.com/ https://products.rivian.com/ Sono Motors: https://sonomotors.com/ https://sonomotors.com/ Lightyear: https://lightyear.one/ https://lightyear.one/