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What's hidden about it? Every time you call a bank, government agency etc you have to step through a mountain of IVR's and frequently have to talk to time wasti

What's hidden about it? Every time you call a bank, government agency etc you have to step through a mountain of IVR's and frequently have to talk to time wasting "AI" just get to a human which still does the bulk of the non-trivial work and whom can help you. It should be obvious that we have and are continuing to push a lot of half baked AI into industry and government processes and that it's frustrating users no end.

TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
Those systems sound more like traditional “expert systems” and not really the more threatening ML.
- nineteen999 7y ago
  Well they are for now. Wait until they get upgraded prematurely too! I should add that "expert systems" were widely touted in promotional materials as being "AI" at the time they were popular, much as "ML" is today. Yes we're closer, but we are still a million miles away from AGI. Or unregulated self driving cars. Or flying ones.
tonyedgecombe 7y ago
I'm not sure it's specific to AI, I've always had to negotiate past front line support to get to someone who knows what they are talking about. The world is built for average, not for you.
- nineteen999 7y ago
  I'm completely average, not above, nor below (at least in my own personal assessment - others may differ). The difference is the front line personnel can sense if you're agitated and they need to escalate your case quickly. I've heard saying "operator" repeatedly down the line may help in this particular case. A human operator will normally react. AI/ML/Expert Systems etc don't care. Plenty of "average" people have complained to me about this use of their time, and that it is not good value for money, especially given the extravagant fees or taxes they may be paying these particular organizations.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    The real benefit will come once everyone’s phone number is tagged with a dollar value, so if you’re a low value person, you get sent to the back of the line, perhaps even being dropped as a customer because the system can calculate how much you cost to support versus how much revenue you bring, and if it’s negative, then there’s a reason to not do business with you. This always did happen before, people who knew people or were much higher net worth obviously got better service, but when it can be automated and subjected to everyone in a granular fashion, it really brings home where you are in the hierarchy and removes any veneer of being equal in society. This is also already implemented at various types of businesses via their “rewards” programs where you’re tiered into different support based on how much you spend or can spend, and get routed to different support agents accordingly.
    - nineteen999 7y ago
      Of course. And in a well functioning society, you'd be able to move to a competitor if you were treated badly enough. But of course, that won't happen for much longer, because we love our monopolies (yay FAANG or utility companies etc.)
      - lotsofpulp 7y ago
        Some of it is just an unintentional consequence of the benefits of technology and its ability to scale leaving no other option (other than to legally forbid it, but then another country might allow it and take advantage, etc, etc). Consumers can and have benefited from economies of scale greatly that the big companies can provide in the short term, but in the long term it can be costly as they exercise their monopoly power, but who can accurately put a price on this so that people choose wisely today.
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      I personally don't think everyone should be treated equally by support. I've been left waiting at the counter at an auto parts store while the store personnel left me to address the needs of the local auto mechanic's shop (who undoubtedly buys 1000x the parts I buy in a given year). The parts store should prioritize the mechanic over me, because they're a much more valuable customer to the parts store. It doesn't do me any good to have the parts store fold because they served everyone exactly in sequence. The USPS undoubtedly has specific support lines and discounted rates for high volume mailers while I as a retail customer pay retail prices and get crappy retail support. Amazon and UPS should get much better service from USPS than I do. Comcast Business customers probably (hopefully) get better service that $99/mo “TriplePlay” residential customers. People with startups here probably prioritize engaged, paying customers over free users. Airline Elite or Diamond or Private customers spending $25K or more every year should get better service than the buyer of a once-a-year $250 trans-continental ticket. When an airline experiences a disruption, they're going to re-accommodate their First Class and Elite frequent fliers first. That's just good business, every bit as much as when I walk into the local diner and the server brings me a coffee prepared as I normally order it before taking someone else's order.
linuxftw 7y ago
My personal theory is most of those systems aren't AI. They are over-seas operators that listen to your choice, and press a button to direct you to the next menu.

TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago

Those systems sound more like traditional “expert systems” and not really the more threatening ML.

nineteen999 7y ago
Well they are for now. Wait until they get upgraded prematurely too! I should add that "expert systems" were widely touted in promotional materials as being "AI" at the time they were popular, much as "ML" is today. Yes we're closer, but we are still a million miles away from AGI. Or unregulated self driving cars. Or flying ones.

tonyedgecombe 7y ago

I'm not sure it's specific to AI, I've always had to negotiate past front line support to get to someone who knows what they are talking about. The world is built for average, not for you.

nineteen999 7y ago
I'm completely average, not above, nor below (at least in my own personal assessment - others may differ). The difference is the front line personnel can sense if you're agitated and they need to escalate your case quickly. I've heard saying "operator" repeatedly down the line may help in this particular case. A human operator will normally react. AI/ML/Expert Systems etc don't care. Plenty of "average" people have complained to me about this use of their time, and that it is not good value for money, especially given the extravagant fees or taxes they may be paying these particular organizations.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  The real benefit will come once everyone’s phone number is tagged with a dollar value, so if you’re a low value person, you get sent to the back of the line, perhaps even being dropped as a customer because the system can calculate how much you cost to support versus how much revenue you bring, and if it’s negative, then there’s a reason to not do business with you. This always did happen before, people who knew people or were much higher net worth obviously got better service, but when it can be automated and subjected to everyone in a granular fashion, it really brings home where you are in the hierarchy and removes any veneer of being equal in society. This is also already implemented at various types of businesses via their “rewards” programs where you’re tiered into different support based on how much you spend or can spend, and get routed to different support agents accordingly.
  - nineteen999 7y ago
    Of course. And in a well functioning society, you'd be able to move to a competitor if you were treated badly enough. But of course, that won't happen for much longer, because we love our monopolies (yay FAANG or utility companies etc.)
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      Some of it is just an unintentional consequence of the benefits of technology and its ability to scale leaving no other option (other than to legally forbid it, but then another country might allow it and take advantage, etc, etc). Consumers can and have benefited from economies of scale greatly that the big companies can provide in the short term, but in the long term it can be costly as they exercise their monopoly power, but who can accurately put a price on this so that people choose wisely today.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    I personally don't think everyone should be treated equally by support. I've been left waiting at the counter at an auto parts store while the store personnel left me to address the needs of the local auto mechanic's shop (who undoubtedly buys 1000x the parts I buy in a given year). The parts store should prioritize the mechanic over me, because they're a much more valuable customer to the parts store. It doesn't do me any good to have the parts store fold because they served everyone exactly in sequence. The USPS undoubtedly has specific support lines and discounted rates for high volume mailers while I as a retail customer pay retail prices and get crappy retail support. Amazon and UPS should get much better service from USPS than I do. Comcast Business customers probably (hopefully) get better service that $99/mo “TriplePlay” residential customers. People with startups here probably prioritize engaged, paying customers over free users. Airline Elite or Diamond or Private customers spending $25K or more every year should get better service than the buyer of a once-a-year $250 trans-continental ticket. When an airline experiences a disruption, they're going to re-accommodate their First Class and Elite frequent fliers first. That's just good business, every bit as much as when I walk into the local diner and the server brings me a coffee prepared as I normally order it before taking someone else's order.

linuxftw 7y ago

My personal theory is most of those systems aren't AI. They are over-seas operators that listen to your choice, and press a button to direct you to the next menu.