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The thing about comparisons is you need to compare like to like as much as possible. Demographics are an essential part of actuarial statistics. I think the b

The thing about comparisons is you need to compare like to like as much as possible. Demographics are an essential part of actuarial statistics. I think the best comparison is between Tesla and luxury vehicles, and here is an article showing Teslas are much more dangerous: https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/teslas-driver-fatality-rate-is-more-than-triple-that-of-luxury-cars-and-likely-even-higher-433670ddde17 https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/teslas-driver-fatality-r... I'm not sure if you noticed (I didn't the first time I saw that document), but there are multiple tabs and that's under the 'Resources' section. That said, the data is obviously incomplete. Only Tesla really knows. While it's obviously a guess, I think the most damning evidence is that Tesla isn't releasing their own data to the contrary, because I think Elon Musk of all people would be ecstatic to shutup the haters such as myself.

AnthonyMouse 7y ago
The demographic point is true, but it really invalidates the whole thing, because you have to be assuming that the same people who buy a Tesla would have otherwise bought a Mercedes S class and not e.g. a Corvette or Porsche. If the Telsa owners skew younger or have other demographic differences from ordinary luxury car purchasers then the comparison is meaningless without factoring that in because you're measuring the driver behavior as much as the cars. (And choosing "luxury cars" rather than "sports cars" or just "cars" as the comparison is maximally unfavorable, since luxury vehicles are generally the safest available regardless of driver.)
- MegaButts 7y ago
  That's a valid criticism, but I still think it's the best analysis with the available data. FWIW, and this is completely anecdotal, I find Tesla drivers to be the most obnoxious on the road - which would lend credence to your argument that it attracts a certain kind of person and is not the car itself. That's ignoring the entire Autopilot X factor though, which is a whole separate conversation with even more missing data. ‾\_(ツ)_/‾
- hef19898 7y ago
  The comparison between Tesla and other luxury cars isn't that far of. It is even the one Tesla is using, or was using, to show success compared to high priced Mercedes, Audi, Porsche and BMW models. One thing I find annoying is that Tesla and Musk seem to always move the goal post to point where it suits them best. For me stuff like self-driving taxis and sattelite internet are prime examples. It looks, at least to me, like running away from rwality faster than it can catch up. One last point regarding luxury cars and safety. Tesla is proud of being the top performer at the NCAP crash test. And all of a sudden that comparison is unfair just because the numbers aren't positive for Tesla?
elisharobinson 7y ago
the author is a tesla short and proud of it . Now the matter of data he sites its his blog which has no published paper or peer review. He quotes IIHS stats but says that they dont have enough data on Tesla ?? and he extrapolates tesla accident rates with correlation with news articles ?? and claims all death rates are not reported cause there may be data entry issues not realizing that it goes both ways?? . Being Short on tesla is different than being short on reality , the apples to apples comparison should be made with driver assist features . If its a matter of structural safety i believe that there should be no doubt that tesla make the safest cars by any standard euro NCAP / us NTHS .
- hef19898 7y ago
  Valid criticism of the source. And exactly the reason why I personally find Tesla, and SpaceX, so annoying. You just can't seem to get reliable unbiased data beyond Tesla's SEC fillings. It is either pro-Musk or anti-Musk to a degree where all neutral analysis are just drowned out. And that sucks, especially since Musk and Tesla ans SpaceX are intentionally fueling that cycle. Which in itself is somewhat worrying.

AnthonyMouse 7y ago

The demographic point is true, but it really invalidates the whole thing, because you have to be assuming that the same people who buy a Tesla would have otherwise bought a Mercedes S class and not e.g. a Corvette or Porsche. If the Telsa owners skew younger or have other demographic differences from ordinary luxury car purchasers then the comparison is meaningless without factoring that in because you're measuring the driver behavior as much as the cars. (And choosing "luxury cars" rather than "sports cars" or just "cars" as the comparison is maximally unfavorable, since luxury vehicles are generally the safest available regardless of driver.)

MegaButts 7y ago
That's a valid criticism, but I still think it's the best analysis with the available data. FWIW, and this is completely anecdotal, I find Tesla drivers to be the most obnoxious on the road - which would lend credence to your argument that it attracts a certain kind of person and is not the car itself. That's ignoring the entire Autopilot X factor though, which is a whole separate conversation with even more missing data. ‾\_(ツ)_/‾
hef19898 7y ago
The comparison between Tesla and other luxury cars isn't that far of. It is even the one Tesla is using, or was using, to show success compared to high priced Mercedes, Audi, Porsche and BMW models. One thing I find annoying is that Tesla and Musk seem to always move the goal post to point where it suits them best. For me stuff like self-driving taxis and sattelite internet are prime examples. It looks, at least to me, like running away from rwality faster than it can catch up. One last point regarding luxury cars and safety. Tesla is proud of being the top performer at the NCAP crash test. And all of a sudden that comparison is unfair just because the numbers aren't positive for Tesla?

elisharobinson 7y ago

the author is a tesla short and proud of it . Now the matter of data he sites its his blog which has no published paper or peer review. He quotes IIHS stats but says that they dont have enough data on Tesla ?? and he extrapolates tesla accident rates with correlation with news articles ?? and claims all death rates are not reported cause there may be data entry issues not realizing that it goes both ways?? . Being Short on tesla is different than being short on reality , the apples to apples comparison should be made with driver assist features . If its a matter of structural safety i believe that there should be no doubt that tesla make the safest cars by any standard euro NCAP / us NTHS .

hef19898 7y ago
Valid criticism of the source. And exactly the reason why I personally find Tesla, and SpaceX, so annoying. You just can't seem to get reliable unbiased data beyond Tesla's SEC fillings. It is either pro-Musk or anti-Musk to a degree where all neutral analysis are just drowned out. And that sucks, especially since Musk and Tesla ans SpaceX are intentionally fueling that cycle. Which in itself is somewhat worrying.