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> Most people I know that don't lift don't care about body shapes This is a lie and you know it. Everyone and I mean literally everyone cares about appearances

> Most people I know that don't lift don't care about body shapes This is a lie and you know it. Everyone and I mean literally everyone cares about appearances. No matter how you slice it everyone has a style they are trying to project. This same goes for body shape. If we had a pill that instantly -- without effort -- gave everyone a six pack and lean muscular body, everyone of your friends would be on it, because deep down they care. Problem is one of discipline. It is not easy to wake up early and hit the gym or after hard day of working to do the same. It is not easy to not eat that doughnut (it is Sally's birthday after all and it would be rude not to take a free doughnut). I am far from perfect, but I try my damnedest each and every day and I'm making progress and I've already noticed it affecting people around me, but I'm also fortunate that the team I work with is full of sport-y people, so at least I get to hang out with "my people", but I feel the difference when I interface with other teams.

nordsieck 7y ago
>> Most people I know that don't lift don't care about body shapes > Everyone and I mean literally everyone cares about appearances. No matter how you slice it everyone has a style they are trying to project. This same goes for body shape. Even those few people who are too lazy or apathetic to project an image on purpose have preferences about others' appearances. This is literally the reason why advertising uses professional models to sell products.
noragami 7y ago
>everyone of your friends would be on it No. Why are you talking in absolutes after spending so much time on the internet? There are always exceptions. Muscular body requires a ton of energy and protein to maintain. Not trying to get on a soapbox here, but I am personally trying to minimize my impact on the environment. This includes eating the minimum amount of protein required to stay healthy. I definitely won't waste the additional energy to maintain useless muscles (which are absolutely useless for a desk job), which will not even be visible under the baggy shirts I prefer to wear.
- nextlevelwizard 7y ago
  we are already talking about magic pill, why should you assume it required any more energy than you consume now? >useless muscles (which are absolutely useless for a desk job), which will not even be visible under the baggy shirts I prefer to wear. This is cope if I've ever seen some. You can rationalize it anyway you want, but deep down you know that if you at this instant could have rock hard abs with perfectly sculpted body without any effort you'd take it. You'd find use for it.
  - notfromhere 7y ago
    This thing always comes up whenever non-fit people talk about fit people, and I believe the core of it is just a hint of envy. Fitness is the one thing you can't cheat at or take shortcuts, and no amount of money can compensate for not doing the work.
- pcstl 7y ago
  There are a lot of hidden assumptions here. One of them being that protein-dense foods always has a greater impact on the environment than other foodstuffs. There are plenty of vegetarian or even vegan bodybuilders, and we know how to isolate protein from vegetables. Pulses are protein-rich, if you don't want to eat isolated proteins. The second one is that a muscular body will always require more energy than a non-muscular body. While muscle does have higher calorie requirements than most other kinds of tissue, most fit people actually eat less calories (and better quality calories) than unfit people, due to being used to keeping their diet under control. The final one is that the only thing one might want to do with their life is their job. Even if you work a desk job, that doesn't mean you won't want to be physically active in your off time.
circlefavshape 7y ago
> Problem is one of discipline Not discipline - priorities. I'm lean and fairly fit, and while I would like to be a little bit more muscular I'd rather spend the time at the piano or with my family
- nextlevelwizard 7y ago
  >I'm lean and fairly fit Judging this is real hard since fairly fit means such different things for different people, but spending 5 hours a week at the gym isn't a big time investment. It obviously won't be getting you Mr. Olympia body, but it will make you bigger and stronger than most people. Part of discipline is also fighting against excuses. Excuses like I don't have time to work out. I don't have time to prep my meals. That's why you need discipline. Taking things to extreme you could wake up at 4:00 am to workout for an hour every single day. Obviously that means giving up on media consumption time during evening to get full night's of rest, but that is why you need discipline.
  - Firadeoclus 7y ago
    If it's not your priority then it's not a matter of discipline. Discipline is what you need in order to live according to your values and long term priorities instead of short term desires. But people can genuinely value other things, which will take up all their available time, over being bigger and stronger.
    - nextlevelwizard 7y ago
      Almost anything you focus yourself on would benefit greatly if you were more fit and taking care of yourself and making yourself grow (both mentally and physically) doesn't take that much time. I currently spend 1 hour per day for 5 days at the gym. On top of that food prep and other training related stuff, lets say it takes me 2 hours a day. Everyone can find 10 hours per week if they just time track what they are doing. For me it has pretty much mean unsubscribing from Netflix and way reduced Youtube consumption. But true your milage may vary, but usually it is just discipline issue. People want instant gratification and do not want to wake up early to hit the gym before they head out to work.
parliament32 7y ago
100%. I can guarantee that every single one of those weak guys decided to "get in shape" at some point in their lives, went to the gym for a week, then quit because "it's too hard". The followed up with a mountain of excuses about why they're too busy or they'd rather play piano or whatever other explanation is necessary for "I'm actively choosing to look like shit". The funny thing is, physical appearance is the primary way we judge other people. Like Arnold said, "A well built physique is a status symbol. It reflects you worked hard for it, no money can buy it. You cannot borrow it, you cannot inherit it, you cannot steal it. You cannot hold onto it without constant work. It shows discipline, it shows self respect, it shows patience, work ethic and passion. That is why I do what I do."
- SantalBlush 7y ago
  This discussion has become a satire. It began like this: > I do suspect that if you do add a lot of musculature to a tall frame it can be a bit intimidating in engineering cultures where most men are out of shape and view the activity as "meatheadish." And it devolved into this: >The followed up with a mountain of excuses about why they're too busy or they'd rather play piano or whatever other explanation is necessary for "I'm actively choosing to look like shit." Jesus, I wasn't rooting for the scrawny nerds at the outset of this thread, but now I am.
theonemind 7y ago
I think you overstate the case. Yes, everyone will choose a better option at no cost, but most everything has cost, and we have limited budgets of discipline, money, etc. to pay the various kinds of costs required for good things...so when someone "doesn't care", it literally mostly means that they won't pay the cost of the thing. So, I don't really find it far fetched that quite a few people by a reasonable definition "don't care", by which I mean they don't consider the benefits worth paying much cost at all, which I consider a fairly reasonable definition of "don't care." I'd like to know Sanskrit; if I could take a pill and know Sanskrit, I would. But do I really care? No. I won't pay my time and attention for it. It'd just be neat. Mostly, too high of an opportunity cost to spend the time on it. The same applies with body shape for me. It'd be nice, but it's not worth my effort. I won't pay much for it, so "I don't care."

nordsieck 7y ago

>> Most people I know that don't lift don't care about body shapes > Everyone and I mean literally everyone cares about appearances. No matter how you slice it everyone has a style they are trying to project. This same goes for body shape. Even those few people who are too lazy or apathetic to project an image on purpose have preferences about others' appearances. This is literally the reason why advertising uses professional models to sell products.

noragami 7y ago

>everyone of your friends would be on it No. Why are you talking in absolutes after spending so much time on the internet? There are always exceptions. Muscular body requires a ton of energy and protein to maintain. Not trying to get on a soapbox here, but I am personally trying to minimize my impact on the environment. This includes eating the minimum amount of protein required to stay healthy. I definitely won't waste the additional energy to maintain useless muscles (which are absolutely useless for a desk job), which will not even be visible under the baggy shirts I prefer to wear.

nextlevelwizard 7y ago
we are already talking about magic pill, why should you assume it required any more energy than you consume now? >useless muscles (which are absolutely useless for a desk job), which will not even be visible under the baggy shirts I prefer to wear. This is cope if I've ever seen some. You can rationalize it anyway you want, but deep down you know that if you at this instant could have rock hard abs with perfectly sculpted body without any effort you'd take it. You'd find use for it.
- notfromhere 7y ago
  This thing always comes up whenever non-fit people talk about fit people, and I believe the core of it is just a hint of envy. Fitness is the one thing you can't cheat at or take shortcuts, and no amount of money can compensate for not doing the work.
pcstl 7y ago
There are a lot of hidden assumptions here. One of them being that protein-dense foods always has a greater impact on the environment than other foodstuffs. There are plenty of vegetarian or even vegan bodybuilders, and we know how to isolate protein from vegetables. Pulses are protein-rich, if you don't want to eat isolated proteins. The second one is that a muscular body will always require more energy than a non-muscular body. While muscle does have higher calorie requirements than most other kinds of tissue, most fit people actually eat less calories (and better quality calories) than unfit people, due to being used to keeping their diet under control. The final one is that the only thing one might want to do with their life is their job. Even if you work a desk job, that doesn't mean you won't want to be physically active in your off time.

circlefavshape 7y ago

> Problem is one of discipline Not discipline - priorities. I'm lean and fairly fit, and while I would like to be a little bit more muscular I'd rather spend the time at the piano or with my family

nextlevelwizard 7y ago
>I'm lean and fairly fit Judging this is real hard since fairly fit means such different things for different people, but spending 5 hours a week at the gym isn't a big time investment. It obviously won't be getting you Mr. Olympia body, but it will make you bigger and stronger than most people. Part of discipline is also fighting against excuses. Excuses like I don't have time to work out. I don't have time to prep my meals. That's why you need discipline. Taking things to extreme you could wake up at 4:00 am to workout for an hour every single day. Obviously that means giving up on media consumption time during evening to get full night's of rest, but that is why you need discipline.
- Firadeoclus 7y ago
  If it's not your priority then it's not a matter of discipline. Discipline is what you need in order to live according to your values and long term priorities instead of short term desires. But people can genuinely value other things, which will take up all their available time, over being bigger and stronger.
  - nextlevelwizard 7y ago
    Almost anything you focus yourself on would benefit greatly if you were more fit and taking care of yourself and making yourself grow (both mentally and physically) doesn't take that much time. I currently spend 1 hour per day for 5 days at the gym. On top of that food prep and other training related stuff, lets say it takes me 2 hours a day. Everyone can find 10 hours per week if they just time track what they are doing. For me it has pretty much mean unsubscribing from Netflix and way reduced Youtube consumption. But true your milage may vary, but usually it is just discipline issue. People want instant gratification and do not want to wake up early to hit the gym before they head out to work.

parliament32 7y ago

100%. I can guarantee that every single one of those weak guys decided to "get in shape" at some point in their lives, went to the gym for a week, then quit because "it's too hard". The followed up with a mountain of excuses about why they're too busy or they'd rather play piano or whatever other explanation is necessary for "I'm actively choosing to look like shit". The funny thing is, physical appearance is the primary way we judge other people. Like Arnold said, "A well built physique is a status symbol. It reflects you worked hard for it, no money can buy it. You cannot borrow it, you cannot inherit it, you cannot steal it. You cannot hold onto it without constant work. It shows discipline, it shows self respect, it shows patience, work ethic and passion. That is why I do what I do."

SantalBlush 7y ago
This discussion has become a satire. It began like this: > I do suspect that if you do add a lot of musculature to a tall frame it can be a bit intimidating in engineering cultures where most men are out of shape and view the activity as "meatheadish." And it devolved into this: >The followed up with a mountain of excuses about why they're too busy or they'd rather play piano or whatever other explanation is necessary for "I'm actively choosing to look like shit." Jesus, I wasn't rooting for the scrawny nerds at the outset of this thread, but now I am.

theonemind 7y ago

I think you overstate the case. Yes, everyone will choose a better option at no cost, but most everything has cost, and we have limited budgets of discipline, money, etc. to pay the various kinds of costs required for good things...so when someone "doesn't care", it literally mostly means that they won't pay the cost of the thing. So, I don't really find it far fetched that quite a few people by a reasonable definition "don't care", by which I mean they don't consider the benefits worth paying much cost at all, which I consider a fairly reasonable definition of "don't care." I'd like to know Sanskrit; if I could take a pill and know Sanskrit, I would. But do I really care? No. I won't pay my time and attention for it. It'd just be neat. Mostly, too high of an opportunity cost to spend the time on it. The same applies with body shape for me. It'd be nice, but it's not worth my effort. I won't pay much for it, so "I don't care."