6 ms·

I Used to Be a Human Being (2016)

110 points by baxtr 7y ago

dang 7y ago
Discussed at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12547817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12547817
FrankyHollywood 7y ago
A couple of years ago I felt the same way. The first major annoyance I had was the constant flow of 'breaking news'. I uninstalled my news apps, and instead I actively browse to a news site whenever I want to read the news. In the years following more apps got uninstalled, and I down scaled my phone contract. Nowadays I never use mobile data, and my WiFi I always off. It became a habit to always actively get my information. So if I want to check my whatsapp messages, I sit down, turn WiFi on, read messages, and turn it off. I don't even think about it anymore, it's the normal way of handling my phone for years now. This week I read people on average take between 2 and 3 hours a DAY on there phones. That sounds like alien to me, just can't imagine.
- namanyayg 7y ago
  That is interesting. I have uninstalled many apps and would like to go the full route of turning off WiFi, but my team does regular communication on slack. Do you have a different communication style or would you just use desktop in that case?
  - r3bl 7y ago
    Why would you agree to have work communications on your phone in the first place? Assuming you work at a desk job (like a programmer), keep work-related items off of your phone. If your superiors complain, tell them you don't want to be responsible for leaking company secrets if you happen to lose your phone. If there's an emergency, your teammates could signal you that your help is necessary via SMS, and you can use a separate device to help them out. Don't sell your soul to your employer. I always establish this limit when starting a new position. My phone is for personal use only, and no work-related communication (business email, Slack etc.) would ever go near it.
    - Freak_NL 7y ago
      This. Just open a browsertab with Slack (or MatterMost if you want a self-hosted alternative) when you're working on your laptop or desktop computer. Close it when you're done working. No one is asking you to be active on chat on your personal devices all the time.
    - dkersten 7y ago
      I used to have work email and slack on my phone, but, yeah, I now only read work communications on my laptop, during work hours. If there's something urgent that needs to get to me after hours, they can call me instead. I don't work outside of work hours anymore unless its really urgent and I try to not think about work much outside of work hours. The rest of the time is my time, not theirs.
    - deanmoriarty 7y ago
      Call me disfunctional or workaholic, but after I tried the strategy you are suggesting I wasn't happier at all. Specifically, I personally am able to keep my work stress level in balance just if I have all work communications (especially emails and slack) on my phone, so that I can take a quick look at what's happening even when I'm not working. This doesn't mean I actually end up working after hours: in fact, 99% of the times I just skim over the push notifications in a few seconds and go back to what I was doing. I found it to be much less stressful than having to wake up in the morning and see the massive burst of activity that happened between 5pm and 8am (especially if your team is distributed across different time zones like mine). And God forbid if I did that when I go on a 2 weeks vacation, I actually wouldn't be able to enjoy the vacation at all because I would always be thinking about the mayhem that's waiting for me on my return. If I am able to glance at the notifications a few times a day instead and occasionally reply on some really high priority stuff, it calms me down because I can get an idea of what has been happening. I'm not sure this is healthy, but I tried your strategy several times and it never worked for me, and this is also in different contexts (e.g. different teams and/or employers). It might also be because I have always held a position of tech lead/manager, so in general there is always a stream of people who are asking for my input on something (that being said, I heavily rely on delegation and people are fully responsible for their own decisions, but they just end up pinging me regardless because I have significant contexts about the projects).
  - FrankyHollywood 7y ago
    It's not so much about which apps you are using, you don't want to isolate yourself. You use whatever communication channel your friends/colleagues use. For me turning off Wifi, and consciously turning it on a couple of times a day is the big difference. Just like checking mail 15 years ago. You decided when to open Eudora or Hotmail, checked mail, en closed it again. For me any app I use is like old school mail checking. I decide when to check. My friends know it can take a couple of hours or sometimes days for me to respond. If something is really urgent, they call me :)
- speedplane 7y ago
  > The first major annoyance I had was the constant flow of 'breaking news'. I uninstalled my news apps, ... I don't even think about it anymore... This week I read people on average take between 2 and 3 hours a DAY on there phones. That sounds like alien to me News isn't just "information" anymore, it's a signal of social norms. If you stop thinking of breaking news as "this is important", and rather that "this is what people want me to think is important", it is far easier to dismiss in substance, but still value as contributing to your understanding of what constitutes common knowledge.
  - Loughla 7y ago
    Also, at least in my part of the US, it's become (and pardon the crudeness) just another societal dick-measuring contest. So now it's 1. What's your job, is that good enough for Mr. Jones to judge? 2. What's your house look like, and do you have curb appeal? 3. Do you have the proper level of outrage over the latest news stories? It's fascinating. Watching societal norms take hold. Honestly.
    - speedplane 7y ago
      > [Social norms have] ... become (and pardon the crudeness) just another societal dick-measuring contest ... It's fascinating. Watching societal norms take hold. It is fascinating, but these norms are crucial to meeting and interacting with new people. Even if you disagree with some social norms, if you don't understand them and the positions behind them, then you can't effectively communicate with new people you interact with. Saying, "you heard X today, total BS" is far superior than saying "what is X?" Social norms allow folks who have never met to still know each other to some degree. They are not terribly helpful with building meaningful relationships (eg close friends, etc), which is why so many dislike them as they seem superficial, which they are. However, they are instrumental in building early relationships and trust with someone who is unfamiliar. If you think of norms more as a tool to help you connect with folks that would otherwise be strangers, and less as a "dick-measure contest", they seem lest distasteful, even beneficial.
  - Communitivity 7y ago
    I think it may always have been a signalling of social norms and expectations. I also think many people view it as 'this is what people like me (or that I want to be like) want me to think is important', which makes it harder to dismiss.
kochikame 7y ago
Really well written article
Udik 7y ago
Oh the irony of the deluge of blog posts telling us about our internet addiction: how they just contribute to our list of compulsive and aimless readings. And then of course, you can comment on them and follow the ensuing discussion.
- what-the-grump 7y ago
  Irony not permitted on HN?
LordN00b 7y ago
Well known Grump and British Comic Stewart Lee uses the exact painting to make a similar point about people (in a much more pointed manner). [Spoilers] At the end of his latest show(Called Content Provider), he stands on the literal detritus of his own content, and re-creates that painting. When he turns back to the audience, you realise, his walking cane is a selfie stick, and he takes a shot.
- dougmwne 7y ago
  Thank you that was great! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz9Nad0bxDU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz9Nad0bxDU
hristov 7y ago
Way to blatantly steal Stewart Lee’s idea without crediting him. Mr. Sullivan you used to be an opportunist ahole and still are.
mc32 7y ago
The Crux of the problem is 24x7 availability. Some of this is crucial —emergency services, utilities, etc. And, I don’t see this changing. That being said, having access to things 24x7x365, does have its consequences. The servers are on, your phone is on. Amazon is available, Video programming is available be it cable or streamed over the web or broadcast TV. Then social media and work. People keep responding to work email even when not at work. This seen as normal. That needs to change. There is no pause. No forced downtime in modern life. You only get natural downtime in remote areas of developed countries or in poor areas of developing countries. But we are not adapted to this well.
- p2detar 7y ago
  There actually is a law in France that forbids workers to check mail after hours. It's something :). "New French law establishing workers’ “right to disconnect” goes into effect today. The law requires companies with more than 50 employees to establish hours when staff should not send or answer emails. The goals of the law include making sure employees are fairly paid for work, and preventing burnout by protecting private time." Source: https://fortune.com/2017/01/01/french-right-to-disconnect-law/amp/ https://fortune.com/2017/01/01/french-right-to-disconnect-la...
  - mc32 7y ago
    This is one of the things I’d like to see many other countries adapt as part of labor law harmonization. People plugged in and responsible 24x7 is silly. I was talking to a dir of physical security at some big company with tens of thousands of employees. He’s the guy. He’s the one to make the call on an emergency be it 9AM or be it 2:30AM. That’s nuts!
CM30 7y ago
Yeah, I understand this feeling. It's certainly very easy to addicted to 'news' and information shared online, especially on social media sites. And it's even easier if you're a journalist/blogger/YouTuber/content creator. In those fields your very popularity and social standing depends on how up to date with current trends you are, and sites like Twitter promise to provide said information. So you end up spending hours there every day, desparately chasing after everything even remotely considered 'newsworthy' so you can get an article or video about it out online. Social media is like crack for content creators, and something that will almost inevitably end up taking over their whole life until they burn out. But still, what can you do? The algorithms demand regular posts and updates, and anyone who can't provide them will sink without a trace. And you're certainly not gonna understand what's popular at the moment if you're not keeping up with it all.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
JansjoFromIkea 7y ago
I recently bought a few cheap electronic padlocks with timers on them (the UI is terrible so I have one for short lengths, one for longer lengths, and a backup cos why not). Been using them to lock away internet access for extended lengths and it's a crazy relief to just know that I CAN'T access anything for X length of time. I've had days where I've done absolutely nothing and felt totally okay about it as a result. Kind of think any remotely obsessive person is going to have to regulate themselves like this to avoid going crazy. The potential shame of breaking the lock is enough to ensure I won't even consider it, for people who have even less self control I feel like there's probably room for some kind of social shaming application which notifies a select set of people when you break rules you impose on yourself.
- badpun 7y ago
  Unfortunately, there's always Internet access in the phone...
  - JansjoFromIkea 7y ago
    That's why I got the lock though, just lock the phone away! Also have a feature phone to cover myself if needed.
newsgremlin 7y ago
The struggle of trying to turn my phone from the source of my main interesting interactions to a small collection of helpful apps is ongoing. Like going back in time to 2008/9 where apps didn't control every facet of our life, and living more off the screen rather than on it. Lots of people can't resist or don't even think it's a problem, but the trend of abstinence is growing which is what we need to keep us questioning our usage.

110 points by baxtr 7y ago

dang 7y ago

Discussed at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12547817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12547817

A couple of years ago I felt the same way. The first major annoyance I had was the constant flow of 'breaking news'. I uninstalled my news apps, and instead I actively browse to a news site whenever I want to read the news. In the years following more apps got uninstalled, and I down scaled my phone contract. Nowadays I never use mobile data, and my WiFi I always off. It became a habit to always actively get my information. So if I want to check my whatsapp messages, I sit down, turn WiFi on, read messages, and turn it off. I don't even think about it anymore, it's the normal way of handling my phone for years now. This week I read people on average take between 2 and 3 hours a DAY on there phones. That sounds like alien to me, just can't imagine.

namanyayg 7y ago
That is interesting. I have uninstalled many apps and would like to go the full route of turning off WiFi, but my team does regular communication on slack. Do you have a different communication style or would you just use desktop in that case?
- r3bl 7y ago
  Why would you agree to have work communications on your phone in the first place? Assuming you work at a desk job (like a programmer), keep work-related items off of your phone. If your superiors complain, tell them you don't want to be responsible for leaking company secrets if you happen to lose your phone. If there's an emergency, your teammates could signal you that your help is necessary via SMS, and you can use a separate device to help them out. Don't sell your soul to your employer. I always establish this limit when starting a new position. My phone is for personal use only, and no work-related communication (business email, Slack etc.) would ever go near it.
  - Freak_NL 7y ago
    This. Just open a browsertab with Slack (or MatterMost if you want a self-hosted alternative) when you're working on your laptop or desktop computer. Close it when you're done working. No one is asking you to be active on chat on your personal devices all the time.
  - dkersten 7y ago
    I used to have work email and slack on my phone, but, yeah, I now only read work communications on my laptop, during work hours. If there's something urgent that needs to get to me after hours, they can call me instead. I don't work outside of work hours anymore unless its really urgent and I try to not think about work much outside of work hours. The rest of the time is my time, not theirs.
  - deanmoriarty 7y ago
    Call me disfunctional or workaholic, but after I tried the strategy you are suggesting I wasn't happier at all. Specifically, I personally am able to keep my work stress level in balance just if I have all work communications (especially emails and slack) on my phone, so that I can take a quick look at what's happening even when I'm not working. This doesn't mean I actually end up working after hours: in fact, 99% of the times I just skim over the push notifications in a few seconds and go back to what I was doing. I found it to be much less stressful than having to wake up in the morning and see the massive burst of activity that happened between 5pm and 8am (especially if your team is distributed across different time zones like mine). And God forbid if I did that when I go on a 2 weeks vacation, I actually wouldn't be able to enjoy the vacation at all because I would always be thinking about the mayhem that's waiting for me on my return. If I am able to glance at the notifications a few times a day instead and occasionally reply on some really high priority stuff, it calms me down because I can get an idea of what has been happening. I'm not sure this is healthy, but I tried your strategy several times and it never worked for me, and this is also in different contexts (e.g. different teams and/or employers). It might also be because I have always held a position of tech lead/manager, so in general there is always a stream of people who are asking for my input on something (that being said, I heavily rely on delegation and people are fully responsible for their own decisions, but they just end up pinging me regardless because I have significant contexts about the projects).
- FrankyHollywood 7y ago
  It's not so much about which apps you are using, you don't want to isolate yourself. You use whatever communication channel your friends/colleagues use. For me turning off Wifi, and consciously turning it on a couple of times a day is the big difference. Just like checking mail 15 years ago. You decided when to open Eudora or Hotmail, checked mail, en closed it again. For me any app I use is like old school mail checking. I decide when to check. My friends know it can take a couple of hours or sometimes days for me to respond. If something is really urgent, they call me :)
speedplane 7y ago
> The first major annoyance I had was the constant flow of 'breaking news'. I uninstalled my news apps, ... I don't even think about it anymore... This week I read people on average take between 2 and 3 hours a DAY on there phones. That sounds like alien to me News isn't just "information" anymore, it's a signal of social norms. If you stop thinking of breaking news as "this is important", and rather that "this is what people want me to think is important", it is far easier to dismiss in substance, but still value as contributing to your understanding of what constitutes common knowledge.
- Loughla 7y ago
  Also, at least in my part of the US, it's become (and pardon the crudeness) just another societal dick-measuring contest. So now it's 1. What's your job, is that good enough for Mr. Jones to judge? 2. What's your house look like, and do you have curb appeal? 3. Do you have the proper level of outrage over the latest news stories? It's fascinating. Watching societal norms take hold. Honestly.
  - speedplane 7y ago
    > [Social norms have] ... become (and pardon the crudeness) just another societal dick-measuring contest ... It's fascinating. Watching societal norms take hold. It is fascinating, but these norms are crucial to meeting and interacting with new people. Even if you disagree with some social norms, if you don't understand them and the positions behind them, then you can't effectively communicate with new people you interact with. Saying, "you heard X today, total BS" is far superior than saying "what is X?" Social norms allow folks who have never met to still know each other to some degree. They are not terribly helpful with building meaningful relationships (eg close friends, etc), which is why so many dislike them as they seem superficial, which they are. However, they are instrumental in building early relationships and trust with someone who is unfamiliar. If you think of norms more as a tool to help you connect with folks that would otherwise be strangers, and less as a "dick-measure contest", they seem lest distasteful, even beneficial.
- Communitivity 7y ago
  I think it may always have been a signalling of social norms and expectations. I also think many people view it as 'this is what people like me (or that I want to be like) want me to think is important', which makes it harder to dismiss.

kochikame 7y ago

Really well written article

Udik 7y ago

Oh the irony of the deluge of blog posts telling us about our internet addiction: how they just contribute to our list of compulsive and aimless readings. And then of course, you can comment on them and follow the ensuing discussion.

what-the-grump 7y ago
Irony not permitted on HN?

LordN00b 7y ago

Well known Grump and British Comic Stewart Lee uses the exact painting to make a similar point about people (in a much more pointed manner). [Spoilers] At the end of his latest show(Called Content Provider), he stands on the literal detritus of his own content, and re-creates that painting. When he turns back to the audience, you realise, his walking cane is a selfie stick, and he takes a shot.

dougmwne 7y ago
Thank you that was great! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz9Nad0bxDU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz9Nad0bxDU

hristov 7y ago

Way to blatantly steal Stewart Lee’s idea without crediting him. Mr. Sullivan you used to be an opportunist ahole and still are.

mc32 7y ago

The Crux of the problem is 24x7 availability. Some of this is crucial —emergency services, utilities, etc. And, I don’t see this changing. That being said, having access to things 24x7x365, does have its consequences. The servers are on, your phone is on. Amazon is available, Video programming is available be it cable or streamed over the web or broadcast TV. Then social media and work. People keep responding to work email even when not at work. This seen as normal. That needs to change. There is no pause. No forced downtime in modern life. You only get natural downtime in remote areas of developed countries or in poor areas of developing countries. But we are not adapted to this well.

p2detar 7y ago
There actually is a law in France that forbids workers to check mail after hours. It's something :). "New French law establishing workers’ “right to disconnect” goes into effect today. The law requires companies with more than 50 employees to establish hours when staff should not send or answer emails. The goals of the law include making sure employees are fairly paid for work, and preventing burnout by protecting private time." Source: https://fortune.com/2017/01/01/french-right-to-disconnect-law/amp/ https://fortune.com/2017/01/01/french-right-to-disconnect-la...
- mc32 7y ago
  This is one of the things I’d like to see many other countries adapt as part of labor law harmonization. People plugged in and responsible 24x7 is silly. I was talking to a dir of physical security at some big company with tens of thousands of employees. He’s the guy. He’s the one to make the call on an emergency be it 9AM or be it 2:30AM. That’s nuts!

CM30 7y ago

Yeah, I understand this feeling. It's certainly very easy to addicted to 'news' and information shared online, especially on social media sites. And it's even easier if you're a journalist/blogger/YouTuber/content creator. In those fields your very popularity and social standing depends on how up to date with current trends you are, and sites like Twitter promise to provide said information. So you end up spending hours there every day, desparately chasing after everything even remotely considered 'newsworthy' so you can get an article or video about it out online. Social media is like crack for content creators, and something that will almost inevitably end up taking over their whole life until they burn out. But still, what can you do? The algorithms demand regular posts and updates, and anyone who can't provide them will sink without a trace. And you're certainly not gonna understand what's popular at the moment if you're not keeping up with it all.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

JansjoFromIkea 7y ago

I recently bought a few cheap electronic padlocks with timers on them (the UI is terrible so I have one for short lengths, one for longer lengths, and a backup cos why not). Been using them to lock away internet access for extended lengths and it's a crazy relief to just know that I CAN'T access anything for X length of time. I've had days where I've done absolutely nothing and felt totally okay about it as a result. Kind of think any remotely obsessive person is going to have to regulate themselves like this to avoid going crazy. The potential shame of breaking the lock is enough to ensure I won't even consider it, for people who have even less self control I feel like there's probably room for some kind of social shaming application which notifies a select set of people when you break rules you impose on yourself.

badpun 7y ago
Unfortunately, there's always Internet access in the phone...
- JansjoFromIkea 7y ago
  That's why I got the lock though, just lock the phone away! Also have a feature phone to cover myself if needed.

newsgremlin 7y ago

The struggle of trying to turn my phone from the source of my main interesting interactions to a small collection of helpful apps is ongoing. Like going back in time to 2008/9 where apps didn't control every facet of our life, and living more off the screen rather than on it. Lots of people can't resist or don't even think it's a problem, but the trend of abstinence is growing which is what we need to keep us questioning our usage.