6 ms·

Thank you for saying this, as I was about to post something similar. I came to the valley about 8 months ago, and switched from hiking to lifting because of ti

Thank you for saying this, as I was about to post something similar. I came to the valley about 8 months ago, and switched from hiking to lifting because of time constraints. Since getting big, I've felt more and more out of place. I even caught one of my bosses referring to me as a 'bro' when he didn't realize I had dialed in to a meeting. Now, granted, the current crop of engineers I work with are some of the most stereotypically nerdy folks I've ever encountered. Back in San Diego, the engineers I worked with were usually surfers, extreme skiers, advanced cyclists, or some other "alpha" pursuit. The "alpha" engineers in the valley that I've encountered so far... are generally pale, skinny, socially awkward and not very friendly. (Edit: Quotes around 'alpha'. Added 'engineers' after second 'alpha'. I thought I edited out the second usage of 'alpha' because it's really all engineers, but keeping it because it still works.)

leet_thow 7y ago
I think you are likely on to something with this and your comment below. Testosterone has been decreasing steadily in men over the years and sitting in front of a machine all day probably doesn't help. And yes, the "jocks vs nerds" meme likely contributes to the mentality we are sensing.
- raverbashing 7y ago
  > And yes, the "jocks vs nerds" meme likely contributes to the mentality we are sensing. Well, bullying was a thing, and it wasn't the nerds bullying the jocks
  - isoskeles 7y ago
    Sure, but to bring that mentality to adulthood seems ridiculous.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- bigmit37 7y ago
  Is there a reason why there is a decline in testosterone? Is it connected to the sperm count steadily decreasing mystery?
  - leet_thow 7y ago
    Last I checked no one has put forth a plausible theory.
    - swebs 7y ago
      There are several related to diet including obesity and xenoestrogens.
  - solotronics 7y ago
    There have been some research studies focused on exogenous estrogen mimicking chemicals (Xenoestrogen). Some plastics exhibit these affects. "BPA (Bisphenol A) is the monomer used to manufacture polycarbonate plastic and epoxy resins used as a lining in most food and beverage cans. BPA global capacity is in excess of 6.4 billion pounds (2.9×109 kg) per year and thus is one of the highest-volume chemicals produced worldwide." -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenoestrogen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenoestrogen https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1469672/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1469672/
  - reitanqild 7y ago
    > Is there a reason why there is a decline in testosterone? Except for the ongoing war against boys? I'm fully aware that girls has faced problems as well, probably more than men, but the solution to that shouldn't be to punish young boys today for the sins of their grandparents. Edit: I'm serious. I'm as much against sexism as anyone, but IMO the solution isn't to make all boys behave more like girls but to make boys behave as better boys.
    - jamespo 7y ago
      Ow your poor male feelings
BeatLeJuce 7y ago
Maybe you feel out of place because you're thinking in terms of "alphas" etc., which to me sounds like a totally douche/"bro" thing to do. Most people I know that don't lift don't care about body shapes etc., otherwise they would lift.
- 01100011 7y ago
  Heh, ya no. I use the term because it seems to be the closest word in common usage to what I'm trying to describe. I'm not going to spend 45 minutes typing a dissertation so I can avoid a sensitive term. There was also a time when I was a fat nerd, about 22 years ago when I emerged from college, and for a while would have made many assumptions about the intelligence of someone who was fit and especially someone who was 'buff'(can I use that word? does it make me sound like I 'bro'? I don't know...).
  - rmdashrfstar 7y ago
    You can say swole instead of buff if you want to be trendy.
- nextlevelwizard 7y ago
  > Most people I know that don't lift don't care about body shapes This is a lie and you know it. Everyone and I mean literally everyone cares about appearances. No matter how you slice it everyone has a style they are trying to project. This same goes for body shape. If we had a pill that instantly -- without effort -- gave everyone a six pack and lean muscular body, everyone of your friends would be on it, because deep down they care. Problem is one of discipline. It is not easy to wake up early and hit the gym or after hard day of working to do the same. It is not easy to not eat that doughnut (it is Sally's birthday after all and it would be rude not to take a free doughnut). I am far from perfect, but I try my damnedest each and every day and I'm making progress and I've already noticed it affecting people around me, but I'm also fortunate that the team I work with is full of sport-y people, so at least I get to hang out with "my people", but I feel the difference when I interface with other teams.
  - 7y ago
asdfman123 7y ago
As a guy who's bulking, I worry about this too. I've been skinny my whole life and true nerds have always recognized me as one of their own. Will that change with a lot of weight training? It feels really silly to type that but I feel the ability to seamlessly fit into that culture is a big advantage. Like, my fiancee is an attractive latina woman and she is the biggest geek I know, but she feels like she has to "prove herself" to other geeks. I hardly know anything about that culture but they instantly see me as one of them.
- SantalBlush 7y ago
  Gatekeepers are going to be gatekeepers. Some folks rely on the nerd persona to look like the smartest person in the room; they probably picked that identity up at an early age. When they see an intelligent person who doesn't fit the stereotype, it can make them uncomfortable. But those people are rare. For everyone else, it doesn't matter.
  - siphon22 7y ago
    Uncomfortable is an understatement. Being smart/geeky is their identity, the "self" that they see within, and it is something that separated them from the jocks. Seeing someone who looks like a jock but is smart/geeky must be like a punch in the face. The thing that made them who they are, the thing that they were made fun of and bullied so much for, is now so casually adopted by the people who did the bullying. It is similar to the feeling when male gamers see female gamers who portray themselves as geeky gamers or whatever after for years making fun of those geeky virgins and their video games.

leet_thow 7y ago

I think you are likely on to something with this and your comment below. Testosterone has been decreasing steadily in men over the years and sitting in front of a machine all day probably doesn't help. And yes, the "jocks vs nerds" meme likely contributes to the mentality we are sensing.

raverbashing 7y ago
> And yes, the "jocks vs nerds" meme likely contributes to the mentality we are sensing. Well, bullying was a thing, and it wasn't the nerds bullying the jocks
- isoskeles 7y ago
  Sure, but to bring that mentality to adulthood seems ridiculous.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
bigmit37 7y ago
Is there a reason why there is a decline in testosterone? Is it connected to the sperm count steadily decreasing mystery?
- leet_thow 7y ago
  Last I checked no one has put forth a plausible theory.
  - swebs 7y ago
    There are several related to diet including obesity and xenoestrogens.
- solotronics 7y ago
  There have been some research studies focused on exogenous estrogen mimicking chemicals (Xenoestrogen). Some plastics exhibit these affects. "BPA (Bisphenol A) is the monomer used to manufacture polycarbonate plastic and epoxy resins used as a lining in most food and beverage cans. BPA global capacity is in excess of 6.4 billion pounds (2.9×109 kg) per year and thus is one of the highest-volume chemicals produced worldwide." -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenoestrogen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenoestrogen https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1469672/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1469672/
- reitanqild 7y ago
  > Is there a reason why there is a decline in testosterone? Except for the ongoing war against boys? I'm fully aware that girls has faced problems as well, probably more than men, but the solution to that shouldn't be to punish young boys today for the sins of their grandparents. Edit: I'm serious. I'm as much against sexism as anyone, but IMO the solution isn't to make all boys behave more like girls but to make boys behave as better boys.
  - jamespo 7y ago
    Ow your poor male feelings

BeatLeJuce 7y ago

Maybe you feel out of place because you're thinking in terms of "alphas" etc., which to me sounds like a totally douche/"bro" thing to do. Most people I know that don't lift don't care about body shapes etc., otherwise they would lift.

01100011 7y ago
Heh, ya no. I use the term because it seems to be the closest word in common usage to what I'm trying to describe. I'm not going to spend 45 minutes typing a dissertation so I can avoid a sensitive term. There was also a time when I was a fat nerd, about 22 years ago when I emerged from college, and for a while would have made many assumptions about the intelligence of someone who was fit and especially someone who was 'buff'(can I use that word? does it make me sound like I 'bro'? I don't know...).
- rmdashrfstar 7y ago
  You can say swole instead of buff if you want to be trendy.
nextlevelwizard 7y ago
> Most people I know that don't lift don't care about body shapes This is a lie and you know it. Everyone and I mean literally everyone cares about appearances. No matter how you slice it everyone has a style they are trying to project. This same goes for body shape. If we had a pill that instantly -- without effort -- gave everyone a six pack and lean muscular body, everyone of your friends would be on it, because deep down they care. Problem is one of discipline. It is not easy to wake up early and hit the gym or after hard day of working to do the same. It is not easy to not eat that doughnut (it is Sally's birthday after all and it would be rude not to take a free doughnut). I am far from perfect, but I try my damnedest each and every day and I'm making progress and I've already noticed it affecting people around me, but I'm also fortunate that the team I work with is full of sport-y people, so at least I get to hang out with "my people", but I feel the difference when I interface with other teams.
- 7y ago

asdfman123 7y ago

As a guy who's bulking, I worry about this too. I've been skinny my whole life and true nerds have always recognized me as one of their own. Will that change with a lot of weight training? It feels really silly to type that but I feel the ability to seamlessly fit into that culture is a big advantage. Like, my fiancee is an attractive latina woman and she is the biggest geek I know, but she feels like she has to "prove herself" to other geeks. I hardly know anything about that culture but they instantly see me as one of them.

SantalBlush 7y ago
Gatekeepers are going to be gatekeepers. Some folks rely on the nerd persona to look like the smartest person in the room; they probably picked that identity up at an early age. When they see an intelligent person who doesn't fit the stereotype, it can make them uncomfortable. But those people are rare. For everyone else, it doesn't matter.
- siphon22 7y ago
  Uncomfortable is an understatement. Being smart/geeky is their identity, the "self" that they see within, and it is something that separated them from the jocks. Seeing someone who looks like a jock but is smart/geeky must be like a punch in the face. The thing that made them who they are, the thing that they were made fun of and bullied so much for, is now so casually adopted by the people who did the bullying. It is similar to the feeling when male gamers see female gamers who portray themselves as geeky gamers or whatever after for years making fun of those geeky virgins and their video games.