4 ms·

I beleive it's all in your head. I used to feel very self conscious in my CS classes about looking like a meathead, but I can't point to in instance during scho

by imesh 7y ago

I beleive it's all in your head. I used to feel very self conscious in my CS classes about looking like a meathead, but I can't point to in instance during schooling or career where that feeling was confirmed by someone's actions/words.

leet_thow 7y ago
Before I trained an engineering manager literally said offhand a candidate was "to big," during my training I had a small framed junior engineer do a 180 and become adversarial after I talked about my training and goals at a group lunch and in interviews I've sensed discomfort from men with small frames as well. It really is instinctual. In the manosphere subculture it is called getting "mogged" as in Alpha Male Other Guy and in forums where they speak freely it is an acknowledged phenomena.
- 01100011 7y ago
  I think there is something that is inherent to 'nerd culture', at least of a certain generation, which instills a feeling of otherness and persecution by 'alphas'. I was a socially awkward nerd in high school with few friends. I left feeling like I was persecuted and had a large chip on my shoulder towards 'normies'. It wasn't until years later that I realized most of it was in my head and self-inflicted. There is a lot of media out there pushing the 'jocks throw nerd in a trashcan' meme. I grew up in places where you'd have thought things like that would have gone on, but in hindsight I don't remember much of it. Sure, the cool kids didn't value intelligence, but they weren't persecuting anyone for it. I get the impression lots of other nerd types have a similar chip on their shoulders, whether from real trauma or imagined. As I have become more fit and more outgoing over the years, I find it's harder to connect with other nerds, perhaps because I don't share the same victimhood fantasy, or maybe I just seem unapproachable to them? I don't know, but I definitely feel more apprehension than when I was a fat guy with bad posture and ill fitting clothes.
  - licebmi__at__ 7y ago
    So the persecution feeling of "nerds" from "jocks" is "mostly in their head and self-inflicted", but the persecution for being "alpha" from "guys with smaller frames" is totally real. And really, I really can't help to think about all the mental baggage someone who uses the term "alpha" has.
    - 01100011 7y ago
      On the off chance your reading comprehension has improved since you read my initial comment, it is worth pointing out that I was referring to my personal experience when I said "most of it was in my head and self-inflicted." 'Alpha' is a term of our times. Sorry, I don't define the language. Substitute 'cool kids' or 'socially elite' if it makes you feel better(assuming you want to feel better... maybe you enjoy being righteously indignant?).
  - tomp 7y ago
    I'm really conflicted about this. I'm a nerd. I was bullied in school. I was also fairly small and weak and non-sporty, so I was an easy target. I also liked to talk and especially talk back to the bullies. Who knows, I might have even "psychologically" bullied other people using my wit and intelligence (several of my classmates complained to the teacher once that I would "insult" them which came as a total shock to me... was probably true but I wasn't doing it maliciously and wasn't consciously aware the impact it had on others). It's really hard to generalize from 1 example.
    - 01100011 7y ago
      It seems to be fairly common for the abused to turn into the abusers at some point. Once you've internalized the status of a victim, abusing your power over others can seem like justified self-defense or righteous revenge. I remember a lot of 'us'(the uncool kids, 'betas'(haha), nerds, dorks, dweebs, etc) being somewhat conflicted over the Columbine killings, because, while the perpetrators were absolute evil assholes, we understood why someone might feel justified in lashing out at the 'cool kids'(is that more acceptable than 'alpha'?). There are definitely nerd bullies. Hell, my mom and uncle were exactly that in high school. They even used to taunt and make fun of my dad. Unfortunately for my mom, being a smart, sarcastic, cross-eyed nerd girl meant you had to sleep with the dorks, and behold, my family was born.
- ramblerman 7y ago
  Everyone really is a victim these days aren't they. I'm sorry but as another tall, muscled software engineer, it sounds like you need to get off those forums. I'm sure there are some people that feel that way, but when it comes to leadership, and other areas in life the truth is that your frame will give you 'instinctual' benefits. Not to mention with women. Life isn't fair. But don't feel bad for the positive traits that you do have.
  - leet_thow 7y ago
    I don't feel bad and don't feel like a victim, I'm just stating an observation. I'm on those forums because I've become fascinated by social and evolutionary psychology and they provide a lot of insight into people's thinking.
    - pasquinelli 7y ago
      Do they? Evolutionary psychology in particular seems like myth making more than anything else. Though, myth can produce a sensation of insight...
    - dTal 7y ago
      Be careful with that "fascinated by psychology" justification for hanging out in toxic places. I've heard that kind of statement from people before, that they're "not really" in a subculture, they just find it "anthropologically interesting". 99% of the time it's at least partly BS, a mental self-excuse to distance themselves from something they find actually quite intriguing. If you frequent such places, you will inevitably pick up the concepts they use, like you did with "mogging". Once you have the concepts in your brain, you will begin to pattern-match them in daily life - like you did with "mogging". It is exactly this acquisition of "new concepts with which to view the world" which is interesting. But once you start habitually viewing the world through a manosphere lens, you are on a slippery slope to becoming like them. Take a look - do you want that? tl;dr meme exposure is dangerous and should not be taken lightly - we don't have the mental separation we think we do. This is not calling you out or anything, just a PSA to you and anyone else reading this thread - innocent curiosity is how people get radicalized!
- ip26 7y ago
  I guess I'm kinda curious what your #'s are. Are you getting mogged for DLing 140kg, or 300kg?

by imesh 7y ago

leet_thow 7y ago

Before I trained an engineering manager literally said offhand a candidate was "to big," during my training I had a small framed junior engineer do a 180 and become adversarial after I talked about my training and goals at a group lunch and in interviews I've sensed discomfort from men with small frames as well. It really is instinctual. In the manosphere subculture it is called getting "mogged" as in Alpha Male Other Guy and in forums where they speak freely it is an acknowledged phenomena.

01100011 7y ago
I think there is something that is inherent to 'nerd culture', at least of a certain generation, which instills a feeling of otherness and persecution by 'alphas'. I was a socially awkward nerd in high school with few friends. I left feeling like I was persecuted and had a large chip on my shoulder towards 'normies'. It wasn't until years later that I realized most of it was in my head and self-inflicted. There is a lot of media out there pushing the 'jocks throw nerd in a trashcan' meme. I grew up in places where you'd have thought things like that would have gone on, but in hindsight I don't remember much of it. Sure, the cool kids didn't value intelligence, but they weren't persecuting anyone for it. I get the impression lots of other nerd types have a similar chip on their shoulders, whether from real trauma or imagined. As I have become more fit and more outgoing over the years, I find it's harder to connect with other nerds, perhaps because I don't share the same victimhood fantasy, or maybe I just seem unapproachable to them? I don't know, but I definitely feel more apprehension than when I was a fat guy with bad posture and ill fitting clothes.
- licebmi__at__ 7y ago
  So the persecution feeling of "nerds" from "jocks" is "mostly in their head and self-inflicted", but the persecution for being "alpha" from "guys with smaller frames" is totally real. And really, I really can't help to think about all the mental baggage someone who uses the term "alpha" has.
  - 01100011 7y ago
    On the off chance your reading comprehension has improved since you read my initial comment, it is worth pointing out that I was referring to my personal experience when I said "most of it was in my head and self-inflicted." 'Alpha' is a term of our times. Sorry, I don't define the language. Substitute 'cool kids' or 'socially elite' if it makes you feel better(assuming you want to feel better... maybe you enjoy being righteously indignant?).
- tomp 7y ago
  I'm really conflicted about this. I'm a nerd. I was bullied in school. I was also fairly small and weak and non-sporty, so I was an easy target. I also liked to talk and especially talk back to the bullies. Who knows, I might have even "psychologically" bullied other people using my wit and intelligence (several of my classmates complained to the teacher once that I would "insult" them which came as a total shock to me... was probably true but I wasn't doing it maliciously and wasn't consciously aware the impact it had on others). It's really hard to generalize from 1 example.
  - 01100011 7y ago
    It seems to be fairly common for the abused to turn into the abusers at some point. Once you've internalized the status of a victim, abusing your power over others can seem like justified self-defense or righteous revenge. I remember a lot of 'us'(the uncool kids, 'betas'(haha), nerds, dorks, dweebs, etc) being somewhat conflicted over the Columbine killings, because, while the perpetrators were absolute evil assholes, we understood why someone might feel justified in lashing out at the 'cool kids'(is that more acceptable than 'alpha'?). There are definitely nerd bullies. Hell, my mom and uncle were exactly that in high school. They even used to taunt and make fun of my dad. Unfortunately for my mom, being a smart, sarcastic, cross-eyed nerd girl meant you had to sleep with the dorks, and behold, my family was born.
ramblerman 7y ago
Everyone really is a victim these days aren't they. I'm sorry but as another tall, muscled software engineer, it sounds like you need to get off those forums. I'm sure there are some people that feel that way, but when it comes to leadership, and other areas in life the truth is that your frame will give you 'instinctual' benefits. Not to mention with women. Life isn't fair. But don't feel bad for the positive traits that you do have.
- leet_thow 7y ago
  I don't feel bad and don't feel like a victim, I'm just stating an observation. I'm on those forums because I've become fascinated by social and evolutionary psychology and they provide a lot of insight into people's thinking.
  - pasquinelli 7y ago
    Do they? Evolutionary psychology in particular seems like myth making more than anything else. Though, myth can produce a sensation of insight...
  - dTal 7y ago
    Be careful with that "fascinated by psychology" justification for hanging out in toxic places. I've heard that kind of statement from people before, that they're "not really" in a subculture, they just find it "anthropologically interesting". 99% of the time it's at least partly BS, a mental self-excuse to distance themselves from something they find actually quite intriguing. If you frequent such places, you will inevitably pick up the concepts they use, like you did with "mogging". Once you have the concepts in your brain, you will begin to pattern-match them in daily life - like you did with "mogging". It is exactly this acquisition of "new concepts with which to view the world" which is interesting. But once you start habitually viewing the world through a manosphere lens, you are on a slippery slope to becoming like them. Take a look - do you want that? tl;dr meme exposure is dangerous and should not be taken lightly - we don't have the mental separation we think we do. This is not calling you out or anything, just a PSA to you and anyone else reading this thread - innocent curiosity is how people get radicalized!
ip26 7y ago
I guess I'm kinda curious what your #'s are. Are you getting mogged for DLing 140kg, or 300kg?